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2019 Madison Scouts!


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1 hour ago, Slingerland said:

Pio hung on because a Director with an outsized sense of self couldn't bring himself to admit that he was in the wrong class. Despite getting paid, his kids were traveling in unsafe vehicles and getting inadequate medical support. 

When you're trying to turn a business around, you look at ALL options. That's where they are right now.

Roman had a heart bigger than his brain, which is NOT an insult. He loved that corps and all of his kids, but his desire to stay WC did endanger the very kids he loved. The activity requires a huge amount of cash on hand to fulfill all of the operational needs. When corps have to plan on appearance monies during the season to make their budget through Indy they are surely going to have to skimp somewhere. Sadly, some of those come in the form of food and transportation.

Turning around the Madison Scouts is exactly what needs to be done. That will require the swallowing of some pride along the way. The mere survival of Madison may be at risk since Newton's Third Law is always in effect. Going co-ed may bring in some new people (not just MMs) but it will alienate an equal number of current and past supporters. There are no negative comments on the Alumni Pages but those are Admin'ed and Moderated by people running the current corps. It would be interesting to know how many alumni feel the identify that drew them to Madison has been lost and that Madison will no longer be anything special since all but one corps is now co-ed. 

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On 8/3/2019 at 12:51 PM, Rich Cline said:

In 2017 after hard fought court battles, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) announced it was going to include girls between the ages of 11 and 17 and change it's name from "Boy Scouts of America (BSA)" to "Scouts BSA"

 

What court battles? The Supreme Court has upheld the constitutional right of the Boy Scouts to be all-male. Your vague comment implies the Boy Scouts went co-ed for legal reasons, which is false. If I have my facts wrong, please provide me with citations. 

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On 7/31/2019 at 10:39 AM, rpbobcat said:

From I've read and heard,BAC's resurgence  was due in large part to an infusion of money.

Why do you think Boston's revenues grew so much? The money didn't fall out of the sky and they didn't win the lottery. There's a reason Boston's revenues grew. 

 

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2 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

You ignore history at your peril. You want to frame this in a perspective of competition, as in - it’s just a band contest, stop with the drama. There are other aspects (life experience etc.) that are just as important.

To believe this ignores history.  So many corps slipped out of the top 12, kept slipping, then folded.  Some slowly, others dramatically fast (27th Lancers for example - 13th place one year, gone the next).  This is what people are worried about.  The very survival of the Madison Scouts.  Competitive results tend to be a pretty accurate “canary in the coal mine” precursor.  Always?  No not always.  But way too often.  This is why competitive results matter.  This is why poor results are indicative of a problem.  This is why there needs to be meaningful changes at the top of the organization.  Oh, and did you notice they don’t have a food truck?  I’m sure the administration had nothing to do with that either.

Two things:

1.  Yes, declining placement = declining revenue, and that is a valid concern.  However, there are a bunch of corps (you know, the ones that are beating Madison for the first time ever) who have thrived long-term on what the 15th-20th place ecosystem provides in appearance fees, revenue sharing, souvie sales, etc.  So there must be a solution for that concern other than "get back in top 6".

2.  I am waiting to hear more about this food truck situation.  What was the plan for August meals?  Did kids know this in advance?

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31 minutes ago, Rudy18 said:

The food truck is still here with the corps.

Then why are meals being catered and why are they seeking donations for the catered meals? Did they not budget for food through Saturday night? Are they feeding the corps out of the truck or is it just "with" the corps??

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3 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

You ignore history at your peril. You want to frame this in a perspective of competition, as in - it’s just a band contest, stop with the drama. There are other aspects (life experience etc.) that are just as important.

To believe this ignores history.  So many corps slipped out of the top 12, kept slipping, then folded.  Some slowly, others dramatically fast (27th Lancers for example - 13th place one year, gone the next).  This is what people are worried about.  The very survival of the Madison Scouts.  Competitive results tend to be a pretty accurate “canary in the coal mine” precursor.  Always?  No not always.  But way too often.  This is why competitive results matter.  This is why poor results are indicative of a problem.  This is why there needs to be meaningful changes at the top of the organization.  Oh, and did you notice they don’t have a food truck?  I’m sure the administration had nothing to do with that either.

 

 

But did 27th fold because they dropped to 13th or was dropping to 13th a symptom of the problems that cause it to fold. My understanding from reading history of drum corps book is behind the scenes problems that caught up to the corps. And that possible sounds like Scouts if this last minute food “help wanted” is any indication 

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1 hour ago, Rudy18 said:

The food truck is still here with the corps.

That’s good. And also interesting. Earlier today on their public Facebook there was a post about needing to turn in the food truck. I don’t see it anymore. So, good I guess. Maybe the truck doesn’t have to be returned after all. 

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5 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

That’s good. And also interesting. Earlier today on their public Facebook there was a post about needing to turn in the food truck. I don’t see it anymore. So, good I guess. Maybe the truck doesn’t have to be returned after all. 

Just saw this on the Page, dated August 2.

"As we prepare to return our leased food truck next week, we will need to cater most of our meals! You can help by sponsoring a meal or contributing to the "Feed the Scouts" campaign. Each dollar you donate directly supports the Madison Scouts!"

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2 hours ago, madisonsmiley said:

What court battles? The Supreme Court has upheld the constitutional right of the Boy Scouts to be all-male. Your vague comment implies the Boy Scouts went co-ed for legal reasons, which is false. If I have my facts wrong, please provide me with citations. 

First let me say that I am not a legal attorney. All information was obtained from news reports and internet sources

You are correct. The Boy Scouts did not go co-ed for legal reasons. It was part of their overall decision ti not exclude anyone and the sexual orientation issue.

The Boy Scouts of America have been involved in numerous litigation suits and the two landmark cases had nothing to do with gender. They were about sexual orientation. 

In 1997 the Evans v. Berkeley case was between the Sea Scouts and the City of Berkeley, California.

Evans v. Berkeley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evans_v._Berkeley

Evans v. Berkeley was a court case which upheld the right of governmental entities in California to withhold support from non-profit organizations that practice discrimination on the basis of sexual
orientation. 

Sea Scouts which were a nautical-themed youth program of the Boy Scouts of America. At the time of this lawsuit, the BSA had policies forbidding avowed homosexuals from membership in BSA, and these policies also applied to Sea Scouting units. 

Dispute

In 1997, the city passed a resolution requiring that in order to receive free use of the marina, non-profit organizations must "demonstrate" through "membership policies and practices" that it “promote
cultural and ethnic diversity.” The resolution also required that access to the marina "not be predicated on a person’s race, color, religion... age, sex, [or] sexual orientation". 

Based on the Boy Scouts of America's policy of excluding gays from membership within its organization, the City of Berkeley decided that continued free berthing for Sea Scouts would violate the resolution.
As a result, the City terminated the free usage arrangement, and began billing the Sea Scouts the standard rent of $500 per month for the amount of berth space it uses. Two of the three ships, ships Northland and St. Ambrose, moved to marinas in other cities. However, adult leader ("Skipper") of the ship Farallon, Eugene Evans, and thirteen other adult members of the Sea Scouts sued the City of Berkeley. They alleged that the city's actions violated their Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Association. This suit was by individuals and did not include the BSA as plaintiffs. 

A trial court ruled against the plaintiffs, holding that "Berkeley had not 'attempted to muzzle anyone’s speech' or force the Sea Scouts to sever their association with BSA, but had only 'conditioned a city subsidy on compliance with nondiscrimination principles'." 

In March 2006, the California Supreme Court unanimously upheld the lower courts rulings and found against the plaintiffs: "We agree with Berkeley and the Court of Appeal that a government entity may constitutionally require a recipient of funding or subsidy to provide written, unambiguous assurances of compliance with a generally applicable nondiscrimination policy. We further agree Berkeley reasonably concluded the Sea Scouts did not and could not provide satisfactory assurances because of their required adherence to BSA’s discriminatory policies."

In July 2006 Evans et al. appealed to the United States Supreme Court. On October 16, 2006, the Supreme Court rejected the appeal from Evans without comment, thus allowing the California decision to stand. 

Meanwhile in 2000 at the time of the case, it asserted that homosexuality was inconsistent with the values of Boy Scouts of America and should be allowed in the Scouts which is a private, non-profit organization engaged in instilling its system of values in young people.  This was decided on June 28, 2000 in favor of Boy Scouts of America by the Supreme Court of the United States
 

Boy Scouts of America v. Dale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_v._Dale


The America et al. v. Dale, 530 U.S. 640 (2000), was a case of the Supreme Court of the United States, decided on June 28, 2000, that held that the constitutional right to freedom of association allowed the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) to exclude a homosexual person from membership in spite of a state law requiring equal treatment of homosexuals in public accommodations. More generally, the court ruled that a private organization such as the BSA may exclude a person from membership when "the presence of that person affects in a significant way the group's ability to advocate public or private viewpoints". In a five to four decision, the Supreme Court ruled that opposition to homosexuality is part of BSA's "expressive message" and that allowing homosexuals as adult leaders would interfere with that message.

The ruling reversed a decision of the New Jersey Supreme Court that had determined that New Jersey's public accommodations law required the BSA to readmit assistant Scoutmaster James Dale, who had made his homosexuality public and whom the BSA had expelled from the organization for that reason.


There have been other suits going back to the 1920s, the Boy Scouts actually sued the Girl Scouts in court over the name “scout.” They thought it was a male term. There were legal battles—and battles in the media—over this. In some countries, there’s a closer relationship between the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. But in the U.S., they’ve functioned as totally separate organizations and they don’t always get along. The Boy Scouts have been struggling with a lot of issues regarding their social attitude, particularly regarding homosexuality.


In 2018 Boy Scouts of America (BSA) changed is name to 'Scouts BSA' and announced it will allow girls to join the organization as Cub Scouts and earn the rank of Eagle Scout, marking a significant policy shift in the organization’s over 100-year history. The Girl Scouts of the USA did not take kindly to the move. 


Cub Scout packs still don’t have to let girls join: the decision is up to individual packs’ leaders. (For now, girls are only allowed to join Cub Scouts; the BSA plans to open the upper ranks of Boy Scouts to girls ages 11 through 17 next year.) Even in co-ed packs, all dens (the sub-units of the group that do most of their activities together) will remain single-gender. Still, says BSA spokesperson Effie Delimarkos, that’s where the differences end. Both boys and girls will be held to the same standards, earning pins and merit badges the same way and going on the same troop and pack campouts. In February 2019, the organization planned to start a program to allow teenage girls to earn the rank of Eagle Scout.


In the complaint filed in November 2018 in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, the Girl Scouts argue that the Boy Scouts' use of certain trademarks is "both new and uniquely damaging" to the organization and they are blasting what they called "a covert campaign to recruit girls. And so, the legal action continues for the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.


Here is how the Boy Scouts has evolved on social issues over the years
https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-boy-scouts-evolution-2017-story.html


Boy Scouts vs. Girl Scouts: A Battle of Values
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/boy-scouts-vs-girl-scouts-a-battle-of-values/

Over the past several months, the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts have been in the headlines. The Boy Scouts of America’s 2013 decision to allow openly gay Scouts (while still banning openly gay Scout leaders)
has garnered continuous attention. And, more recently, the Girl Scouts of America — long the more progressive of the two groups — teamed up with LeanIn.org on its “Ban Bossy” campaign, which strives to
promote leadership roles for girls.

The two groups have been around for more than a century, and as the country’s values have shifted, both organizations have had to balance tradition and adaptation.

Both groups have a statement of their values in the form of their Scout laws.

Here’s the Boy Scout Law:


A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

And the Girl Scout Law:


I will do my best to be Honest and Fair, Friendly and Helpful, Considerate and Caring, Courageous and Strong, and Responsible for what I say and do, And to respect myself and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, make the world a better place, and be a sister to every Girl Scout.

The Girl Scouts Have Sued the Boy Scouts. Now What?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/09/us/girl-scouts-sue-boy-scouts.html

In a lawsuit filed in Manhattan federal court this week, the Girl Scouts argued that its fears that its brand would be damaged “have been realized” after the Boy Scouts announced plans this year to drop “boy” from its namesake program while welcoming girls into its ranks.

Girl Scouts Of The USA Files Suit Against Boy Scouts Of America
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/07/665308785/girl-scouts-of-the-usa-files-suit-against-boy-scouts-of-america

Girl Scouts of the USA wants to take Boy Scouts of America to court. The organization has filed a federal lawsuit accusing the Boy Scouts of trademark infringement. 

This started last October, when the Boy Scouts said it would start allowing girls to join its programs. Girl Scouts National President Kathy Hopinkah Hannan accused the Boy Scouts' national president at the time, Randall Stephenson, of carrying out a "covert campaign" to recruit girls.

Edited by Rich Cline
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