2019 Madison Scouts!

[Slingerland]

9 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

OMG, not another "Madison lost to _____ last night" post.

If you people are so deeply concerned about Madison Scouts leadership, you should look into what it takes to get onto their board of directors.  If enough of those complaining here are as knowledgeable as they think they are, and actually got involved, they could affect the changes they seek.

Agreed - those who believe they have solutions should step up and offer their service, their wallets, and their efforts to changing the direction.

That being said, it could be that a responsible Board decision would be to move into a competition realm where they could save resources until such a time as they've bolstered their capacity enough to play the game at World Class level, which they seem to be struggling to do right now. I'm not sure it would make a significant difference in terms of talent level, since their average age now is not far off from where the top OC corps are, and taking a couple of years to focus on winning at that level (not as easy as anyone thinks) would give them space to come up with whatever their new co-ed identity will be.
 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Slingerland

[Gantang]

7 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

OMG, not another "Madison lost to _____ last night" post.

If you people are so deeply concerned about Madison Scouts leadership, you should look into what it takes to get onto their board of directors.  If enough of those complaining here are as knowledgeable as they think they are, and actually got involved, they could affect the changes they seek.

It's not about losing to Troopers it's about the totality of circumstances. Two Open Class corps that decided to not do a full tour would probably add to the group of corps that Madison will lose to. They can't sustain a World Class corps due to whatever it is that led to their continued struggle to remain relevant within the activity.

I don't think they need a BOD change, but I think the people leading Madison need to be replaced. That fulls on the shoulders of the BOD and there are some really smart people who I'm sure would love to turn the thing around, but they need to have the chutzpah to pull the trigger and replace the day-to-day leaders. There could be someone with that chain of people who have ideas but who are being silenced or ignored by CK. 

This is not dissimilar to Wisconsin's beloved Green Bay Packers. They changed head coaches because the team was not living up to the expectations of the fan base and Owners (those shares of Packer stock are a joke). It wasn't just losing games that led to the firing, it was losing the support of the people who are the team's stakeholders. 

I know that you don't get it and that you appear to live in a non-competitive bubble, which is OK, but there are certain expectations for any organization that competes, and Madison is out of its league in World Class drum corps...financially, infrastructure, talent, and sustainability. Heck, they're not even from Madison anymore.

[Gantang]

9 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

Agreed - those who believe they have solutions should step up and offer their service, their wallets, and their efforts to changing the direction.

 

I'm 100% with you after your first sentence. The BOD is not filled with inept people, but they seem reluctance to do their jobs. They have a fiduciary responsibility to make sure that every dollar is being spent efficiently and effectively. It's this current BOD that needs to fire the day-to-day leadership. A wholesale change of the entire madison leadership would spell disaster.

Madison people need to share their thoughts concerns, and suggestions with the current BOD, not look to overthrow them. 

[cixelsyd]

14 minutes ago, Gantang said:

It's not about losing to Troopers it's about the totality of circumstances. Two Open Class corps that decided to not do a full tour would probably add to the group of corps that Madison will lose to. They can't sustain a World Class corps due to whatever it is that led to their continued struggle to remain relevant within the activity.

I don't think they need a BOD change, but I think the people leading Madison need to be replaced. That fulls on the shoulders of the BOD and there are some really smart people who I'm sure would love to turn the thing around, but they need to have the chutzpah to pull the trigger and replace the day-to-day leaders. There could be someone with that chain of people who have ideas but who are being silenced or ignored by CK. 

This is not dissimilar to Wisconsin's beloved Green Bay Packers. They changed head coaches because the team was not living up to the expectations of the fan base and Owners (those shares of Packer stock are a joke). It wasn't just losing games that led to the firing, it was losing the support of the people who are the team's stakeholders. 

I know that you don't get it and that you appear to live in a non-competitive bubble, which is OK, but there are certain expectations for any organization that competes, and Madison is out of its league in World Class drum corps...financially, infrastructure, talent, and sustainability. Heck, they're not even from Madison anymore.

Thanks, but allow me to speak for myself.  What I "don't get" is:

- people who cannot put competition in perspective.  This is not the Green Bay Packers.  Competitive results are not the only goal or achievement by which the value of a youth program is measured.  Never mind that not one of those competing youth programs has any perpetual claim to everlasting winning results, another detail certain posters here fail to grasp.

- people who demand firings without specificity.  Never mind who is really at fault, never mind about lining up replacements.  Fire the admins, the BOD... fire everybody until there is no one left to hire the replacements.

Believe it or not, I do get it.  Competing is a big part of this game, and Madison has lost significant ground on that which suggests changes were/are warranted.  (I thought that process began with the staff changes from that 2018 disaster.)  Maybe change needs to extend into management.  If so, why do we only hear about it when Madison loses to ______?

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Slingerland said:

Agreed - those who believe they have solutions should step up and offer their service, their wallets, and their efforts to changing the direction.

That being said, it could be that a responsible Board decision would be to move into a competition realm where they could save resources until such a time as they've bolstered their capacity enough to play the game at World Class level, which they seem to be struggling to do right now. I'm not sure it would make a significant difference in terms of talent level, since their average age now is not far off from where the top OC corps are, and taking a couple of years to focus on winning at that level (not as easy as anyone thinks) would give them space to come up with whatever their new co-ed identity will be.
 

you have to understand the financial differences between the classes to know this is a bad move. It's why Pioneer stayed in World Class. Open Class corps do not get the show fees world class does, as well as the share points and other financial resources available to World Class. While show, show fees are not a huge part of the budget, that plus the other perks world class gets means changing to Open Class leaves a large enough hole in a budget already rumored to be strapped. There's no guarantee WC shows will let them tour with WC every single night, which means fewer opportunities to perform. Yet you have the kids all summer, and have to feed and house them.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Gantang said:

It's not about losing to Troopers it's about the totality of circumstances. Two Open Class corps that decided to not do a full tour would probably add to the group of corps that Madison will lose to. They can't sustain a World Class corps due to whatever it is that led to their continued struggle to remain relevant within the activity.

I don't think they need a BOD change, but I think the people leading Madison need to be replaced. That fulls on the shoulders of the BOD and there are some really smart people who I'm sure would love to turn the thing around, but they need to have the chutzpah to pull the trigger and replace the day-to-day leaders. There could be someone with that chain of people who have ideas but who are being silenced or ignored by CK. 

This is not dissimilar to Wisconsin's beloved Green Bay Packers. They changed head coaches because the team was not living up to the expectations of the fan base and Owners (those shares of Packer stock are a joke). It wasn't just losing games that led to the firing, it was losing the support of the people who are the team's stakeholders. 

I know that you don't get it and that you appear to live in a non-competitive bubble, which is OK, but there are certain expectations for any organization that competes, and Madison is out of its league in World Class drum corps...financially, infrastructure, talent, and sustainability. Heck, they're not even from Madison anymore.

if the board continues to allow the same leadership team in charge, then that IS a BOD issue

[Gantang]

10 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

if the board continues to allow the same leadership team in charge, then that IS a BOD issue

Agreed, but other BODs have fired Madison EDs.

[Gantang]

12 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

you have to understand the financial differences between the classes to know this is a bad move. It's why Pioneer stayed in World Class. Open Class corps do not get the show fees world class does, as well as the share points and other financial resources available to World Class. While show, show fees are not a huge part of the budget, that plus the other perks world class gets means changing to Open Class leaves a large enough hole in a budget already rumored to be strapped. There's no guarantee WC shows will let them tour with WC every single night, which means fewer opportunities to perform. Yet you have the kids all summer, and have to feed and house them.

I was thinking in terms of going back to a 1st and 2nd tour format, which would cost a lot less money and ease their budget. With DCI being held in Indy that is close for them to travel to at the end of 2nd tour. They could limit the number of shows and log far fewer miles thus saving on fuel, food, etc. I know the DCI payments structure is bad, but Madison needs to do something to right their ship in ALL aspects not just competitively, which some people don't seem to understand. 

[HockeyDad]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

Thanks, but allow me to speak for myself.  What I "don't get" is:

- people who cannot put competition in perspective.  This is not the Green Bay Packers.  Competitive results are not the only goal or achievement by which the value of a youth program is measured.  Never mind that not one of those competing youth programs has any perpetual claim to everlasting winning results, another detail certain posters here fail to grasp.

- people who demand firings without specificity.  Never mind who is really at fault, never mind about lining up replacements.  Fire the admins, the BOD... fire everybody until there is no one left to hire the replacements.

Believe it or not, I do get it.  Competing is a big part of this game, and Madison has lost significant ground on that which suggests changes were/are warranted.  (I thought that process began with the staff changes from that 2018 disaster.)  Maybe change needs to extend into management.  If so, why do we only hear about it when Madison loses to ______?

You ignore history at your peril. You want to frame this in a perspective of competition, as in - it’s just a band contest, stop with the drama. There are other aspects (life experience etc.) that are just as important.

To believe this ignores history.  So many corps slipped out of the top 12, kept slipping, then folded.  Some slowly, others dramatically fast (27th Lancers for example - 13th place one year, gone the next).  This is what people are worried about.  The very survival of the Madison Scouts.  Competitive results tend to be a pretty accurate “canary in the coal mine” precursor.  Always?  No not always.  But way too often.  This is why competitive results matter.  This is why poor results are indicative of a problem.  This is why there needs to be meaningful changes at the top of the organization.  Oh, and did you notice they don’t have a food truck?  I’m sure the administration had nothing to do with that either.

 

 

[Slingerland]

24 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

you have to understand the financial differences between the classes to know this is a bad move. It's why Pioneer stayed in World Class. Open Class corps do not get the show fees world class does, as well as the share points and other financial resources available to World Class. While show, show fees are not a huge part of the budget, that plus the other perks world class gets means changing to Open Class leaves a large enough hole in a budget already rumored to be strapped. There's no guarantee WC shows will let them tour with WC every single night, which means fewer opportunities to perform. Yet you have the kids all summer, and have to feed and house them.

I'm well aware of the finances in WC drum corps. Madison stands to make $120k, tops, from appearance fees and their DCI share. They could pioneer (no pun) a business model where the corps was more local and more available for events in the midwest to help make up the difference. Hanging on to WC status as a former champion level corps now scraping by at the bottom rung of WC isn't much of a peg to hang a hat on, especially when it means that being WC places a demand on how much travel they need to do.

Pio hung on because a Director with an outsized sense of self couldn't bring himself to admit that he was in the wrong class. Despite getting paid, his kids were traveling in unsafe vehicles and getting inadequate medical support. 

When you're trying to turn a business around, you look at ALL options. That's where they are right now.