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3 hours ago, dans said:

Is it really necessary to make a statement like that? Wow!

well....yes. I'll give you an example you can understand. Serenade in Brass. The longest running and biggest indoor standstill show out there...1976-2011. When the decision in 2010 was made to make 2011 be the last one, one simple fact stated was...the audience for older alumni style shows was either unable to attend due to age, health, or lack of being with us any longer. You can see the same thing with the DCA alumni spectacular. Eventually my generation, aged 55-45 right now, will be that group probably complaining online about the product ( some already started), wanting to return to the older ways, and yet we're in the countdown towards the end. Hershman once said " i've been dying since the day I was born". He's right. 

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3 hours ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

Repeat after me: You are not the customer. The kid on the field is the customer.

The activity exists to make the kid on the field happy. If the kid on the field is happy, the people in the stands are happy. Or, they should be. They're "our" kids, after all -- some literally, some figuratively. Do we not want them to be happy? Do we not want them to learn the reward of discipline, hard work and team effort? Is this not the entire point of this crazy, exhilarating, exhausting, life-changing, all-consuming activity?

Of course, the paying customers are learning how to achieve excellence through performance, and performance requires a consideration of the audience. They have to consider how the crowd will engage with what is happening on the field. That's inherent in any creative performance. Shakespeare didn't write plays for the sake of the actors. He wanted to say something to the world. The key difference: He didn't charge the actors money to perform. DCI -- or, rather, the drum corps themselves -- charges the actors. The actors are the customer.

And if the customer is happy, if the kids on the field are satisfied they got what they paid for, and you're not . . .  well, I submit that is a you problem, not a DCI problem.

ding ding

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3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Not really.  If you scour the vast resources of the Internet, you can find someone gnashing teeth over anything.  But there simply was no wave of people comparable to the A&E changes telling us that trombones were their line in the sand to leave the activity over.

"They" decided to forsake tradition back in 1971 - that is why DCI was formed.  And the commitment to "next generation" above all else was made in the late 1990s.  Since then, there have been upswings and downswings.

the decision was made in 99...not truly embraced and pushed forward til 2009.

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30 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

I feel you. I am sorry, but no one will ever convince me that what these members do today is harder that what Star did in 1990, 1991, or 1993, or Cadets have done numerous times. I'm sorry, but playing less and moving less is not harder, it's easier. Standing and doing poses is easier. Not that it has to be harder, but that's the argument we get. That being said, SCV's show last year was my favorite show it probably 2 decades. I do think it's foretelling though - a compact show that won. Welcome to drum corps on a basketball court - that is the future.

different movement isn't necessarily easier just because it's not running at 180 bpm. In fact, it actually can take far more physical training

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1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

well....yes. I'll give you an example you can understand. Serenade in Brass. The longest running and biggest indoor standstill show out there...1976-2011. When the decision in 2010 was made to make 2011 be the last one, one simple fact stated was...the audience for older alumni style shows was either unable to attend due to age, health, or lack of being with us any longer. You can see the same thing with the DCA alumni spectacular. Eventually my generation, aged 55-45 right now, will be that group probably complaining online about the product ( some already started), wanting to return to the older ways, and yet we're in the countdown towards the end. Hershman once said " i've been dying since the day I was born". He's right. 

I'm not stupid Jeff. I understand mortality and reality. You really don't need to talk down to me. How do you fit through a door with that ego? And by the way, you did not change my mind. Your statement was not necessary to make your point. Most people have a brain and can figure things out without you stating the obvious.

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4 hours ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

Repeat after me: You are not the customer. The kid on the field is the customer.

The activity exists to make the kid on the field happy. If the kid on the field is happy, the people in the stands are happy. Or, they should be. They're "our" kids, after all -- some literally, some figuratively. Do we not want them to be happy? Do we not want them to learn the reward of discipline, hard work and team effort? Is this not the entire point of this crazy, exhilarating, exhausting, life-changing, all-consuming activity?

Of course, the paying customers are learning how to achieve excellence through performance, and performance requires a consideration of the audience. They have to consider how the crowd will engage with what is happening on the field. That's inherent in any creative performance. Shakespeare didn't write plays for the sake of the actors. He wanted to say something to the world. The key difference: He didn't charge the actors money to perform. DCI -- or, rather, the drum corps themselves -- charges the actors. The actors are the customer.

And if the customer is happy, if the kids on the field are satisfied they got what they paid for, and you're not . . .  well, I submit that is a you problem, not a DCI problem.

Repeat after me: You are wrong! We are THE ONLY customer. The audience is THE ONLY customer, and when THE ONLY customer isn't satisfied the audience gets smaller and smaller and smaller. We see this across all forms a musical entertainment. A musical like Hamilton is a hit, because its audience loves and can in some way relate to it, where as a musical like The Pirate Queen fails because its audience does not love it. A band like U2 has packed stadiums for over 3 decades because their existing audience is loyal and they keep finding a new audience. A band like James, has spent 3 decades struggling to find an audience while they also write great music. One has to deduce that the audience is just not getting it.  I'm paying good money to go to a show, then I am part of THE ONLY customer. The designers should be designing for us, not the judges.

It's not my problem whether the kids and staff work harder or not. It's not my problem if said kid has a horrible summer and experience. It's not my problem that the kids have to pay to be a part of the activity. It's not my problem that the staff only design shows for the judges and not THE ONLY customer. It's not my problem if I decide to get a hotdog when Corps A is one. It's not my problem if I only politely applaud when I really don't want to applaud at all. It's not my problem if I walk away and no longer spend money on supporting this activity.

If it is indeed our, THE ONLY customers, problem, then someday there won't be any customers to have a problem and DCI will cease to exist, at least as we know it today. 

Edited by queenanne_1536
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17 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

different movement isn't necessarily easier just because it's not running at 180 bpm. In fact, it actually can take far more physical training

Perhaps, but the difference is corps were playing difficult musical passages, while moving that fast, while trying to make those movements as tight and clean as possible. Today, hornlines play maybe half the show, do more dancing and posing, creatively score their parts so those that are doing the demanding movements aren't playing and those doing the demanding musical passages are standing still.

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20 minutes ago, dans said:

I'm not stupid Jeff. I understand mortality and reality. You really don't need to talk down to me. How do you fit through a door with that ego? And by the way, you did not change my mind. Your statement was not necessary to make your point. Most people have a brain and can figure things out without you stating the obvious.

i fit thru most things easily except my belt after the lunch i just ate thanks.

 

was i maybe too blunt? yes. But it's a reality people don't want to talk about it. doesn't make it any less of a reality

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8 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

Repeat after me: You are wrong! We are THE ONLY customer. The audience is THE ONLY customer, and when THE ONLY customer isn't satisfied the audience gets smaller and smaller and smaller. We see this across all forms a musical entertainment. A musical like Hamilton is a hit, because its audience loves and can in some way relate to it, where as a musical like The Pirate Queen fails because its audience does not love it. A band like U2 has packed stadiums for over 3 decades because their existing audience is loyal and they keep finding a new audience. A band like James, has spent 3 decades struggling to find an audience while they also write great music. One has to deduce that the audience is just not getting it.  I'm paying good money to go to a show, then I am part of THE ONLY customer. The designers should be designing for us, not the judges.

It's not my problem whether the kids and staff work harder or not. It's not my problem if said kid has a horrible summer and experience. It's not my problem that the kids have to pay to be a part of the activity. It's not my problem that the staff only design shows for the judges and not THE ONLY customer. It's not my problem if I decide to get a hotdog when Corps A is one. It's not my problem if I only politely applaud when I really don't want to applaud at all. It's not my problem if I walk away and no longer spend money on supporting this activity.

If it is indeed our, THE ONLY customers, problem, then someday there won't be any customers to have a problem and DCI will cease to exist, at least as we know it today. 

If you entice the kids, the kids coming back after they are done marching. for a while DCI had failed to do so....now not so much. as a bonus, parents get hooked and keep coming back too.

 

so no, you are not the ONLY customer. If the kids don't want to do what's out there, YOU'RE staring at an empty field

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7 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

Perhaps, but the difference is corps were playing difficult musical passages, while moving that fast, while trying to make those movements as tight and clean as possible. Today, hornlines play maybe half the show, do more dancing and posing, creatively score their parts so those that are doing the demanding movements aren't playing and those doing the demanding musical passages are standing still.

unfortunately there was a lot of smoke and mirrors in those musical books while running that made things sound much harder than they were on paper. and trying to play while doing some of the body stuff today is actually more difficult because of the physical demands for the visual and musical at the same time.

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