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2019 Phantom Regiment


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57 minutes ago, acolli17 said:

I don't want to speak on other people's behalf, but my understanding is similar to when someone says they support American industry and manufacturing, and then proceed to purchase products made in China and Mexico (I know this is getting dangerously close to political, so I want to explicitly state that I am not trying to poke or shine a spotlight on any single individual or group).

The reason I've read that people are upset is not just because there are no women composers having been programmed - that's happened countless times throughout drum corps over the years - but that a group states that their show is about empowering women and then doesn't empower women with their music selections.

Thanks for your thoughts. I understand your first paragraph and agree. Saying you support American mfr then purchase products made elsewhere when you could have bought American. I struggle with the second paragraph. It just seems quite a stretch to require or expect a tie between a show concept, and the gender of the composers of the music selection for that show. 

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3 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

I wouldn’t care. It’s just an issue for those looking for a reason to be outraged. Play the music that you think is best. It’s the music that’s used to help convey the show’s theme. Not the writer of the music. 

at the risk of being called insensitive, I kinda agree. To be perfectly honest, I don't look at what composers are listed in show announcements, because depending on how it's arranged, it could suck regardless of who wrote it. Conversely, I have seen drum corps take originals I thought sucked and made them classics. 

The other problem is as we as an activity try to get so super deep with all kinds of hidden meanings and imagery in design, in these polarized times, someone somewhere is going to be offended. Tim Hintons newest podcast talks about online criticism of design, and of course this topic is #1 on the list, and of course the "poor kids" stuff gets trotted out. I am going to say this loudly, because i think it's time people get it:

 

IF THE KIDS DIDN'T LIKE IT OR WERE AFRAID THEY'D GET CRITICIZED THEY WOULDN'T MARCH IT! You think 20+ years kids didn't know going to the Cadets they'd see criticism? Or BD since 08? hell pretty much every corps has critics online, and in the stands. Long before DCP, RAMD, Facebook, Twitter etc you heard the same #### in the stands you see online...just now everyone can see it. you put something out there in the art world or movie world, you'll have critics....same as drum corps.

 

As for Phantom, sure if they had thought it out more, maybe they could have found something that worked, but they didn't. I'm not going to flog them for it. I'm so tired of the far extremes on every god ###### side in this world making mountains out of molehills.

Edited by Jeff Ream
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1 hour ago, acolli17 said:

Judging by the level of backlash to the programming, I'd say a lot of people care.

Go back to the start of this thread...

The people who are upset now about the lack of female composer selection(s) are upset over any/every design choices made by this staff. Composer selection is the just latest bone to pick with the same crowd.

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I don't believe guys should even march this year!  I also think that all instruction, and volunteers should be female. In fact only women should be able to see this show.

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I'll say it again. Equality at the tip of a spear (In this case the spear being online hecklers and nay-sayers brow beating people) is not true equality. If the staff was open to all possibilities with their musical selections regardless of the gender of the composer that is called equal opportunity. That is the goal is it not?

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1 minute ago, alvinpr89 said:

I don't believe guys should even march this year!  I also think that all instruction, and volunteers should be female. In fact only women should be able to see this show.

Oh come on, let's not be hyperbolic here. By doing that, you're telling people that their concerns about composer representation are immaterial and unjustified, and that they don't deserve a voice in the conversation. 

Disagree, but don't disrespect.

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Just now, Spatzzz said:

I'll say it again. Equality at the tip of a spear (In this case the spear being online hecklers and nay-sayers brow beating people) is not true equality. If the staff was open to all possibilities with their musical selections regardless of the gender of the composer that is called equal opportunity. That is the goal is it not?

Can you elaborate on your tip of the spear statement? I don't know if I'm understanding it correctly, but it seems like you're saying the way that equality is being represented in this context is as the beginning of an assault on norms. I could very well be wrong, so I apologize if I misread your comment.

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58 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

Thanks for your thoughts. I understand your first paragraph and agree. Saying you support American mfr then purchase products made elsewhere when you could have bought American. I struggle with the second paragraph. It just seems quite a stretch to require or expect a tie between a show concept, and the gender of the composers of the music selection for that show. 

Your point is well made, and I can respect that. Hopefully their message comes through regardless of the source of music and we can all enjoy their show this summer without political frivolity in the background.

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Just now, acolli17 said:

Can you elaborate on your tip of the spear statement? I don't know if I'm understanding it correctly, but it seems like you're saying the way that equality is being represented in this context is as the beginning of an assault on norms. I could very well be wrong, so I apologize if I misread your comment.

I'm saying people like you are trying to browbeat others into your viewpoint that PR made a mistake by not including a women composer. You are doing so in hopes that others will "see the light" and of course not have to go through what PR is going through by bending to your will EVEN if it isn't in their best interest. You are claiming they made a mistake when there was no mistake to be made to begin with since they very well were open to all possibilities and provided all composers equal treatment when selecting music. You are looking for a fight on a non-issue and looking for a way to be offended. Is that clear enough?

Answer me this. If they provided all composers the same opportunity to be selected for their show regardless of gender is that not real equality? 

 

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20 minutes ago, Spatzzz said:

I'm saying people like you are trying to browbeat others into your viewpoint that PR made a mistake by not including a women composer. You are doing so in hopes that others will "see the light" and of course not have to go through what PR is going through by bending to your will EVEN if it isn't in their best interest. You are claiming they made a mistake when there was no mistake to be made to begin with since they very well were open to all possibilities and provided all composers equal treatment when selecting music. You are looking for a fight on a non-issue and looking for a way to be offended. Is that clear enough?

Answer me this. If they provided all composers the same opportunity to be selected for their show regardless of gender is that not real equality? 

 

There's a lot to unpack here, but I'll do my best to address your comments. I sincerely hope I've come across as respectful with every comment I've made, and my intention was to never belittle or offend.

I think we have to be careful when we say we're browbeating, since points are simply trying to be made. Isn't that what we do with every discussion? Uniforms, drill, music, staff, tradition, all facets of drum corps are discussed with passion, and that's what makes this activity great. I don't hope that others will "see the light," but rather it's a topic for discussion where people present material to alter the opinion of others. That's not browbeating, in my opinion, that's simply having a conversation.

I think the point about the female composers is that a lot of people feel that programming works by women would have been in the best interests of Phantom. In the classes that I teach, I spent a lot of extra time going out of my way to program music that was not only engaging and challenging to my students, but represented a wide spectrum of diversity in composers this year. If you listened to the music, you wouldn't get the feeling that pieces were picked with an agenda in mind, but rather that it was great music (in my opinion). I personally feel that Phantom could have done the same, again this is my opinion.

And to answer your question, disregarding gender is real equality, yes. And were Phantom to have created a gender neutral show this year, I don't think there'd be any issue. But the show is in fact not disregarding gender - it is very strongly about female empowerment. So to then turn around and not do that in all of the different facets of the show feels disingenuous, almost as if they're jumping on the bandwagon because it's the hot topic of the times. I understand your point about equality, but the concept of this show is not gender equal, which then creates a lack of consistency in the design because of the decisions that were made.

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