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What props?  Seriously you are calling backdrops props?

 

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56 minutes ago, Rocketman said:

Putting on my Program Coordinator hat for a moment:

Chevron - considering the previous set pretty much telegraphs what's coming next, not working.

Uniform changes - not working.

Swaying in the middle of the field - not working.

Prop integration - not working. 

Sounds like I'm down on the corps/show? No! I'm down on the design elements that (IMO) were not given enough thought/attention. Then again, I'm not being paid to come up with the design elements so, what do I know?

Absolutely agree with this. I like the show in all actuality. But it almost seems like the things listed here are the fantasies of a fan and not a member of a professional design staff. In my younger years (before I had a few years under my belt of actually being a part of the DCI process as an MM,) I can imagine myself saying "Oh!! We could SO throw a (insert signature move here) right here! It'l be freakin' AWESOME!!!" 

It's kind of like my dream when I started DCI in '87 was to one day play Malaguena because it was so cool. We all grow up (unfortunately) and start to see the big picture. I get it though. I dig chevrons and kick stops as much as anyone who lived through those iconic moments. I didn't know anyone who was a fan or member of any corps who didn't love and respect the corps and those moments. I just know and understand enough now to see that they have to actually make some #### sense and not just be thrown in willy-nilly.  

Edited by Weaklefthand4ever
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12 minutes ago, Mello Dude said:

What props?  Seriously you are calling backdrops props?

Agreed. I asked the question before of those who have been in the judging community (or at least understand HOW the judging TRULY works...not in concept, but in reality.) And let's remember, I'm a drummer so I can only count to potato...so please use small words. 

What would happen if a corps just didn't have props as opposed to having props on the field that simply aren't used? Would they take a hit on GE for not having them as opposed to not using  them is what I'm asking I guess. 

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21 hours ago, general_tsos_chicken2 said:

Even the chevron in 2010 at the big into the light hit was great, It was used very effectively. I just wish I saw more evidence of a well thought out plan to end the show... and the chevron instead says to me that they are relying on something that worked in the past instead to generate their GE

 

Exactly! In 2010, it came somewhat out of nowhere. It was a different design, angled. It wasn't the "let's march in two lines directly into this form on the 50 to close the show." 2010 required some ingenuity.

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1 minute ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

What would happen if a corps just didn't have props as opposed to having props on the field that simply aren't used? Would they take a hit on GE for not having them as opposed to not using  them is what I'm asking I guess. 

Look at Music City last year. It was easily the most successful show in their less than a decade of existence, and yet there were little to no props used at all, instead using the entire field to their advantage to create GE.

For the record, I am not anti-props, but if the corps is really not doing much with them (or if they don’t integrate them well into the drill and staging... looking at you, PR 2018), it can definitely hurt their score and detract from the audience’s enjoyment of the show.

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1 hour ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

Absolutely agree with this. I like the show in all actuality. But it almost seems like the things listed here are the fantasies of a fan and not a member of a professional design staff. In my younger years (before I had a few years under my belt of actually being a part of the DCI process as an MM,) I can imagine myself saying "Oh!! We could SO throw a (insert signature move here) right here! It'l be freakin' AWESOME!!!" 

It's kind of like my dream when I started DCI in '87 was to one day play Malaguena because it was so cool. We all grow up (unfortunately) and start to see the big picture. I get it though. I dig chevrons and kick stops as much as anyone who lived through those iconic moments. I didn't know anyone who was a fan or member of any corps who didn't love and respect the corps and those moments. I just know and understand enough now to see that they have to actually make some #### sense and not just be thrown in willy-nilly.  

I assume we can all agree that a kick halt or a chevron form, regardless of when done, will not make make or break a show?

There are so few traditions and even recognizability of corps these days given the annual, throw-away costumes, I like the nod to the corps history. 

Crown has done quite well the last 10 years, and while I don't know with certainty, I'll assume they've had a crown form every year. In how many of their shows does a crown form "make sense"? Triple Crown, maybe, sorta and that was 2007 (I looked this up, don't have it all memorized). Are people upset about Crown's use of this every year? Even if so, the judges seem to be OK it.

And actually, after 2 minutes of internet research:

Joan of Arc, in French Jeanne d'Arc (6 January 1412 – 30 May 1431) 

Chevron: First appearing in English in the 14th century, chevron derives via Middle English and Anglo-French 

Maybe it make more sense this year than we knew?

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32 minutes ago, billj said:

I assume we can all agree that a kick halt or a chevron form, regardless of when done, will not make make or break a show?

There are so few traditions and even recognizability of corps these days given the annual, throw-away costumes, I like the nod to the corps history. 

Crown has done quite well the last 10 years, and while I don't know with certainty, I'll assume they've had a crown form every year. In how many of their shows does a crown form "make sense"? Triple Crown, maybe, sorta and that was 2007 (I looked this up, don't have it all memorized). Are people upset about Crown's use of this every year? Even if so, the judges seem to be OK it.

And actually, after 2 minutes of internet research:

Joan of Arc, in French Jeanne d'Arc (6 January 1412 – 30 May 1431) 

Chevron: First appearing in English in the 14th century, chevron derives via Middle English and Anglo-French 

Maybe it make more sense this year than we knew?

That's entirely possible considering I didn't (nor do I normally,) do any research of the backstory and compare it to the show. Do I know the story? Yes. Do I think the theme as it is presented on the field is something that the average fan would immediately identify and relate to Joan on Arc? Not really. That does not, in any way, change the fact that I like the show overall. I'm not a judge (and never would want to be.) 

To be clear, once again, I LOVE the kick stop, chevron, etc. When they add something to the show, they're wonderful (such as in 2010.) There's nothing wrong with tradition. Maybe this DOES add something in a historical context (and corps tradition.) But I'm fairly sure that the judges aren't going to research the significance as you did. So if we consider that as at least a possibility (if not a probability,) will they see it as a GE distraction? 

THAT is what is yet to be seen. It's certainly interesting to tie the historical significance in. 

Edited by Weaklefthand4ever

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Trust me, I don't have time or energy to research corps shows. Most design staff's description of a show go right over my head, any way; nor do I always "get" shows when watching them even if I do know the theme (was Crown's championship show about physics or a love story, or both? I don't really care, and I loved that show). And we shouldn't have to do research. On first viewing for an audience member, all shows should just entertain. While the top corps are all very, very good, there's a homogenization creeping in that concerns me. 

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It's pretty clear they use the backdrops they have on the field for hiding people coming in and holing equipment/uniforms.   Phantom uses the field, not hide it.  If all the "field" is a "stage" now..some corps only use 1/3 of it.  Mind you Mandirans do it well but...

 

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This show has come further than I thought, but I think they need to dump the black uniforms and just wear the same uniform the whole show. The change is poorly executed and the blacks are just too old fashioned. Still, the corps can be proud that they have taken this show to new heights. I wrote them off in the first week, but they are pulling together.

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