garfield Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Jake W. said: That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. To pretend two similar forms of performance art (broadway & drum corps) are absolutely different and don’t overlap is ignorance at its finest. And to pretend that neither overlap under the term “art”...yea. Sheer stupidity. All this hand-wringing over drill is for naught. Cadets are staring down 9th/10th with a monstrously talented corps because the design team gave them an ill-conceived, poorly-written show to perform. Cadets dropped out of medals in 2015 because they too were performing a poorly-written and glaringly flawed design, not because they marched too much drill. Crown is struggling in GE this year because the show doesn’t make sense as a whole and none of the ideas they are intending to portray are coming through in the visual package or overall effect, not because they’re marching too much drill. BD succeeds because all of their design choices make sense, not because they eschew drill for staging. Moral of the story: perform a show with tons of drill, or very little. Just make sure it’s written with purpose and an intent to bring out the musicality and bring clarity to the program. Cadets don't move forward by trying to capture what is and isn’t popular in design; they move forward by simply putting out a show that makes sense in every aspect —- a task that was not met in the slightest this year. You've got some pretty strong opinions, there! I'll bet you're a drum corps director, or maybe a band director. Or you could be a Broadway producer/director. Or maybe you're a judge on a circuit. I'd like to know for a very specific reason, if you don't mind sharing. Here's another opinion that came to me recently from a retired band director and current judge: "Two major points: 1: If you have to explain your show, you need a new one. 2. Complete a full melodic line with an understandable phrase ending.... other than a major triad Fermata." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake W. Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, garfield said: You've got some pretty strong opinions, there! I'll bet you're a drum corps director, or maybe a band director. Or you could be a Broadway producer/director. Or maybe you're a judge on a circuit. I'd like to know for a very specific reason, if you don't mind sharing. Here's another opinion that came to me recently from a retired band director and current judge: "Two major points: 1: If you have to explain your show, you need a new one. 2. Complete a full melodic line with an understandable phrase ending.... other than a major triad Fermata." A band director. Occasionally a local judge. I like to keep a modicum of anonymity other than that, not that anyone would recognize the names of any of the programs I am tied to : ) I'll prepare for a nice garfield-style evisceration from you (I've always enjoyed reading them in the past), but until corrected, I absolutely stand by my points: a) that Cadets will find success when they create a show design where all aspects makes sense in tandem with the others, and design choices are clear, clever, and understandable, NOT trying to figure out what's popular/trendy/appealing to the judges at the moment, and b) that @rpbobcat's show going companion is utterly dense if she thinks art can only be seen in an art museum, broadway only on a stage, and that drum corps is a totally separate entity untouched by either. Per your second point, I agree completely. No arguments here. (S)he speaks true words. Edited August 6, 2019 by Jake W. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jake W. said: A band director. Occasionally a local judge. I like to keep a modicum of anonymity other than that, not that anyone would recognize the names of any of the programs I am tied to : ) I'll prepare for a nice garfield-style evisceration, but until corrected, I absolutely stand by my points: a) that Cadets will find success when they create a show design where all aspects makes sense in tandem with the others, and design choices are clear, clever, and understandable, NOT trying to figure out what's popular/trendy/appealing to the judges at the moment, and b) that @rpbobcat's show going companion is utterly dense if she thinks art can only be seen in an art museum, broadway only on a stage, and that drum corps is a totally separate entity untouched by either. Per your second point, I agree completely. No arguments here. (S)he speaks true words. Me? Eviscerate? Nawwww.... I wasn't setting you up at all. Your comments seemed to come from the same (strong) sense that this other director/judge shared and I imbued your qualifications. I trust this other person's viewpoints on this subject...lots. Maybe you now, too. (Not that you should celebrate or anything as a result. You never know when my evisceration tools are sharpened up! Edited August 6, 2019 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 man I'm reading through everyone being so reasonable - and I just can't I can't get over the fact that they haven't removed the electronics from that "do better" section - and why wasn't it restaged with actual drill? AND I can't get over the fact that they haven't removed the tag ending on BOTW I just can't get over either... so sadly I'm sort of done (personally) with this creative team 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, George Dixon said: man I'm reading through everyone being so reasonable - and I just can't I can't get over the fact that they haven't removed the electronics from that "do better" section - and why wasn't it restaged with actual drill? AND I can't get over the fact that they haven't removed the tag ending on BOTW I just can't get over either... so sadly I'm sort of done (personally) with this creative team George has cracked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftwdrummer Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, George Dixon said: man I'm reading through everyone being so reasonable - and I just can't I can't get over the fact that they haven't removed the electronics from that "do better" section - and why wasn't it restaged with actual drill? AND I can't get over the fact that they haven't removed the tag ending on BOTW I just can't get over either... so sadly I'm sort of done (personally) with this creative team Just to this specific point--if you take out the electronics, is there anything else there? I mean, yes, you have the wonderful percussion things, but the electronics are kinda the rug there. It's a #### ugly rug, but it really ties the room together. (Then again, I'm also one of those people who appreciates the Hammerstein-esque openheartedness of the cheese in the narration in 2007 and thinks your "do it the exact same but without words" idea is really bad, so...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake W. Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, FTNK said: George has cracked. Even though Cadets have been the subject of much contrition over the past 5 years (I'm speaking show design only here), I've always admired @George Dixon's unending loyalty to his home team. These haven't been 5 easy seasons to watch if you're a Cadets lover, not to mention the behind the scenes stuff. One could even call him the @Hook'emCavies of The Cadets. I'll always appreciate hopefulness & optimism during down times for a corps from said corps' homers. Otherwise things quickly devolve into Madison-esque threads. And no one wants that. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook'emCavies Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jake W. said: Even though Cadets have been the subject of much contrition over the past 5 years (I'm speaking show design only here), I've always admired @George Dixon's unending loyalty to his home team. These haven't been 5 easy seasons to watch if you're a Cadets lover, not to mention the behind the scenes stuff. One could even call him the @Hook'emCavies of The Cadets. I'll always appreciate hopefulness & optimism during down times for a corps from said corps' homers. Otherwise things quickly devolve into Madison-esque threads. And no one wants that. George is a great guy. I feel like many others would say I am the George Dixon of The Cavaliers. Either way, I hope The Cadets have an incredible run during Championship week! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 23 minutes ago, ftwdrummer said: Just to this specific point--if you take out the electronics, is there anything else there? I mean, yes, you have the wonderful percussion things, but the electronics are kinda the rug there. It's a #### ugly rug, but it really ties the room together. (Then again, I'm also one of those people who appreciates the Hammerstein-esque openheartedness of the cheese in the narration in 2007 and thinks your "do it the exact same but without words" idea is really bad, so...) you take out the electronics and let the percussion shine - maybe a TINY bit of the "do better" remains. Some of it could be transferred to the brass chanting it during actual complex drill - it's horrific as is the "dancing" they made these very talented brass and guard players do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 28 minutes ago, FTNK said: George has cracked. lol - no, I'm still in one piece I just think the Cadets (members) deserve much much much better and believe me there's things I'm aware of that I have not discussed here that frankly highly unacceptable this batch of Cadets needs new leadership 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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