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23 hours ago, George Dixon said:

agreed. Cadets in a lot more shows this year - others (Crown, Boston, BD, SCV to name a few) in many fewer

Cadets are also "fighting" earlier performance times - which shortens the rehearsal day further

With smart scheduling and smart changes to the program they have a shot at a strong finish. This and further strengthening of their organization back in A-town will allow a more level playing field moving forward

DCI should consider a minimum show # for world class - it's getting a little ridiculous with certain corps

The more shows they do, the more money they get, ja? 

Can't afford not to perform a lot when you're trying to improve your financial situation.  Besides, Cadets always seem to perform more than most others... that's what I love about the corps culture.  You do more because you can.  🙂 

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4 hours ago, chris ncsu said:

I have the feeling (virtually, of course - half a Periscope earlier in the weekend then Flo last night) that the corps' performance is stagnating a bit since the 4th. Have to get past these constant show days and shorter rehearsals, and get some real cleaning and modifications done.

I think we are well past the feeling of doom some people had from the Detroit show, which I'm glad about. We're about 2-3 weeks into the tour and they're showing signs of strength. I think this show has more room to grow than 2018, and it helps that they have at least one really solid caption working for them (percussion).

per Scott this morning, 3 days in the same place...that should give them time to do some serious work

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12 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

per Scott this morning, 3 days in the same place...that should give them time to do some serious work

That's definitely good news for them. That would be plenty of time to add some changes and also include some major cleaning.

I think their next few shows should be a good indication of the direction they are headed. I say next few instead of the next one in case the changes are not incorporated into the show right away.

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On 7/7/2019 at 12:49 PM, George Dixon said:

agreed. Cadets in a lot more shows this year - others (Crown, Boston, BD, SCV to name a few) in many fewer

Cadets are also "fighting" earlier performance times - which shortens the rehearsal day further

With smart scheduling and smart changes to the program they have a shot at a strong finish. This and further strengthening of their organization back in A-town will allow a more level playing field moving forward

DCI should consider a minimum show # for world class - it's getting a little ridiculous with certain corps

I know you understand this, George, but I wonder how many fans consider this major impediment to lower-placing corps working up the ladder.

It's been a complaint for decades from the corps that don't place in the top 6 or so.  The only relief for any one corps is when the rest of the competitive field places below them, but those shows can prove difficult to fill a stadium.

 

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20 minutes ago, garfield said:

I know you understand this, George, but I wonder how many fans consider this major impediment to lower-placing corps working up the ladder.

It's been a complaint for decades from the corps that don't place in the top 6 or so.  The only relief for any one corps is when the rest of the competitive field places below them, but those shows can prove difficult to fill a stadium.

 

I think that is just part of the equation. In my honest opinion I think it's a cop out and easy to point out start times as a liability. How about the benefits? The majority of shows the difference between start times is usually about an hour... if that. I would argue that the earlier time would give them more time after their performance to practice in the lot if they truly wanted to get better. You could easily get in an hour+ of time since they don't have to wait for retreats in uniform. How many of those corps that want to move up do that? I would say very few. 

Let's not forget that fatigue could play a factor, both positively and negatively for those corps. Better corps have to perform later so could be more tired. 

I think there's another factor that is an even larger factor than performance times: housing locations. You could be the last performing corps of the night but have to leave earlier than anyone because of how far your practice location is from the stadium. 

In 1999, during finals week we were staying at a school about 1 1/2 hours away from Camp Randall Stadium. It certainly wasn't due to availability. It was due to GH wanting us away from distractions (according to him). Imagine the amount of extra time we could have spent on the show if we were only 30 mins away.

I don't think our placement in the show had anywhere as much of a factor as the travel distance did. 

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4 hours ago, East9900 said:

Watched their show last night which was only my second viewing of this show (first was premiere). 

Much improved! The drumline is incredible. I'm not a drum guy but I cannot help but watch them.

Hornline- much better. Still some really dirty stuff but I think they will get there.

Now for the show: Beginning is better. As for the story, I still don't get it. First- why is this even happening to the queen. She doesn't seem like a bad queen and just seems like her scepter is  being taken away because the peasants are revolting. For what reason?? And she gets completely lost with in the middle and have no idea why she's doing what she's doing.

I'm REALLY bummed they toned down the hit during Bridge Over Troubled Waters. I get the purpose of adding the dynamics, but I want to be hit in the face and it feels like they let off the gas and ruins the moment for me. 

"Do Better" section feels like old school GH. Stop it with the voice. We get it- "we must do better". Zero reason to bash us over the head with it. Let the drums and the pit do their thing.

Closer still needs work (no shocker there), but if they can clear up the story and add a few real moments (so far nothing makes me want to stand up) I think they could make top 6. At this moment they are placing exactly where they should.

Saw the show for the first time last night.  The uniforms look *great,* right up until they unzip them.  Then everyone looks wide and short.  Not sure what you can do, other than just take them off completely?  The drumline steals the show, by far.  Holy cow can they play and run.  I was also having trouble with the story, but it didn't really ruin the moment for me.  I dig the Nouveau-Cadets' dark symphonic style, but the front half of the show has a lot of reaaaly exposed bits from individual sections, along with a lot of dead time.  That said, once it gets rolling, it really gets rolling, too!

I would be hard pressed to put them anywhere but 7th right now, but I think they've also managed to up their game this year along with everyone else.  They're definitely on the right track, long term.

(edit: sorry, meant to add - Do Better = New Era. I don't get it, but I like it!)

Mike

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On 7/7/2019 at 10:49 AM, George Dixon said:

agreed. Cadets in a lot more shows this year - others (Crown, Boston, BD, SCV to name a few) in many fewer

Some corps need the extra shows for the income.  Some corps who have been or have become stronger financially, can cut back to improve their shows.

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7 minutes ago, East9900 said:

I think that is just part of the equation. In my honest opinion I think it's a cop out and easy to point out start times as a liability. How about the benefits? The majority of shows the difference between start times is usually about an hour... if that. I would argue that the earlier time would give them more time after their performance to practice in the lot if they truly wanted to get better. You could easily get in an hour+ of time since they don't have to wait for retreats in uniform. How many of those corps that want to move up do that? I would say very few. 

Let's not forget that fatigue could play a factor, both positively and negatively for those corps. Better corps have to perform later so could be more tired. 

I think there's another factor that is an even larger factor than performance times: housing locations. You could be the last performing corps of the night but have to leave earlier than anyone because of how far your practice location is from the stadium. 

In 1999, during finals week we were staying at a school about 1 1/2 hours away from Camp Randall Stadium. It certainly wasn't due to availability. It was due to GH wanting us away from distractions (according to him). Imagine the amount of extra time we could have spent on the show if we were only 30 mins away.

I don't think our placement in the show had anywhere as much of a factor as the travel distance did. 

If a typical weeknight show starts at 7pm and the last corps steps off 9pm, isn't that two hours between step-offs?  This is typical for most shows.

What "lot" would you anticipate that an early-start-time corps could use to "practice" after the show?  It doesn't work that way.  At most shows, corps check out of their host school and head to the performance stadium so they don't go back to their host school after the show.  Instead, they EPL and head to their next stopover about 5 or 6 hours away.  There is likely no "lot" available at the show site for corps to rehearse after the show.  "Easily" get in an hour-plus?  Really?  When the corps has to P&L back to a host school?  How much of the "hour+" time that you claim is actually useful time in this type of circumstance?

Staying 1 1/2 hours from Camp Randall was a decision made purposely and was based, in part, on the extra time the corps had to get to their step-off time.

You're right, of course, that housing is an increasingly difficult issue for the activity, but those are systemic issues that affect all corps.  The impact of step-off times is inversely proportional to placement almost all shows.  The only thing that alleviated the inequity were in those few years where Finals week placements were drawn at random, at we see how long that lasted!

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On 7/7/2019 at 12:49 PM, George Dixon said:

Cadets are also "fighting" earlier performance times - which shortens the rehearsal day further

While this certainly has an impact the lower down the ladder you go competitively (as Garfield pointed out), I hardly think it's having much of any impact (if at all) on the Cadets this season, especially since they are essentially sitting in the same position (relative to other corps) that they have been the last two seasons.  So far, their performance timing this season:

  • Gone last:  2
  • Gone one from last: 3
  • Gone two from last:  4
  • Gone three from last:   2
  • Gone four from last:  0
  • Gone five from last:  1
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6 minutes ago, Eleran said:

While this certainly has an impact the lower down the ladder you go competitively (as Garfield pointed out), I hardly think it's having much of any impact (if at all) on the Cadets this season, especially since they are essentially sitting in the same position (relative to other corps) that they have been the last two seasons.  So far, their performance timing this season:

  • Gone last:  2
  • Gone one from last: 3
  • Gone two from last:  4
  • Gone three from last:   2
  • Gone four from last:  0
  • Gone five from last:  1

Didn't Boston Crusaders also have to face early performing times the year they blasted from 12th Place to 6th?

I do believe it is something corps have to deal with when they want to rise in the rankings.  But, Cadets situation isn't as bad as it would be if they were, say, the 12th Place corps last year.

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