The Cadets 2019

[chris ncsu]

The TOC shows shuffle the order at least, but that seems to frustrate many DCPers more (in terms of scoring spreads) than any sense of evening the playing field by giving lower-placing corps the chance to go on later.

In any case, going on earlier vs later based on last year's placements or placements from earlier this year is just the way it is. It's like the play-in games for the NCAA basketball tournament, and then placing the lowest seeds against the highest seeds...or higher seeds in some sports tournaments getting a bye. You're asked to bring your game, no excuses, and earn your way.

[PamahoNow]

5 hours ago, East9900 said:

Now for the show: Beginning is better. As for the story, I still don't get it. First- why is this even happening to the queen. She doesn't seem like a bad queen and just seems like her scepter is  being taken away because the peasants are revolting. For what reason?? And she gets completely lost with in the middle and have no idea why she's doing what she's doing.

This.  I still do not think that the Cadets provide any motivation for sacking the queen.  And later she becomes a peasant and rallies all the other peasants who overthrew her. ??? Am I supposed to find some external description of this show that explains it?  I'm not sure the show itself gives any motivation for itself.  Or, (possibly), I'm all wet and everyone else "get's it" and I am being dense. 

[Eleran]

1 hour ago, MikeN said:

The uniforms look *great,* right up until they unzip them.  Then everyone looks wide and short.  Not sure what you can do, other than just take them off completely? 

Solution:  Keep them zipped!  The pre-season uniform reveal showed that nearly everyone thought the red velvet jackets looked great [though I think they would have looked even better if the back was straight across like a normal jacket, and not draped down on one side].   Don't lose that element of classiness and appeal to show off an unattractive blue shirt covered in sequins, especially since unzipping the jacket makes it drape ridiculously!  You gain nothing dramatically - it's merely a change for the sake of change alone - and yet you lose the clean visual line and aesthetic appeal of the jacket.

As to the yellow, which is not actually part of the blue shirt but is sort of any extra piece of cloth stitched or pinned on ... either forget it (like the blue undershirt), or adjust it lower down so it shows a few inches or more below the jacket the entire show.  Frankly, you  might as well just issue them traditional gold cummerbunds - just leave the jacket loose on top, rather than tucked inside.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Eleran

[Jeff Ream]

21 minutes ago, barigirl78 said:

Didn't Boston Crusaders also have to face early performing times the year they blasted from 12th Place to 6th?

I do believe it is something corps have to deal with when they want to rise in the rankings.  But, Cadets situation isn't as bad as it would be if they were, say, the 12th Place corps last year.

when you get to seeded shows it all works out

[Jeff Ream]

13 minutes ago, chris ncsu said:

The TOC shows shuffle the order at least, but that seems to frustrate many DCPers more (in terms of scoring spreads) than any sense of evening the playing field by giving lower-placing corps the chance to go on later.

In any case, going on earlier vs later based on last year's placements or placements from earlier this year is just the way it is. It's like the play-in games for the NCAA basketball tournament, and then placing the lowest seeds against the highest seeds...or higher seeds in some sports tournaments getting a bye. You're asked to bring your game, no excuses, and earn your way.

honestly...it doesn't matter when you go on. Judges can change numbers on the fly if need be

[East9900]

1 hour ago, garfield said:

If a typical weeknight show starts at 7pm and the last corps steps off 9pm, isn't that two hours between step-offs?  This is typical for most shows.

What "lot" would you anticipate that an early-start-time corps could use to "practice" after the show?  It doesn't work that way.  At most shows, corps check out of their host school and head to the performance stadium so they don't go back to their host school after the show.  Instead, they EPL and head to their next stopover about 5 or 6 hours away.  There is likely no "lot" available at the show site for corps to rehearse after the show.  "Easily" get in an hour-plus?  Really?  When the corps has to P&L back to a host school?  How much of the "hour+" time that you claim is actually useful time in this type of circumstance?

Staying 1 1/2 hours from Camp Randall was a decision made purposely and was based, in part, on the extra time the corps had to get to their step-off time.

You're right, of course, that housing is an increasingly difficult issue for the activity, but those are systemic issues that affect all corps.  The impact of step-off times is inversely proportional to placement almost all shows.  The only thing that alleviated the inequity were in those few years where Finals week placements were drawn at random, at we see how long that lasted!

I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean they had time to go back to the rehearsal site and rehearse. I am referring to practicing in the lot. Usually corps don't leave immediately after their performance. I haven't been to as many shows as I used to, but I'm pretty sure the corps has to stay around until the end at least (due to drum major only 'retreats'). If they don't do that at all anymore and leave immediately than my point is void.

When I marched, there were times after our performance that we would practice as a section in the lot. That is what I am referring to. As a member I hated those times so I'm sure they would as well. But what I'm saying is if those corps have to stick around until the end, that is plenty of time to squeeze a sectional in and get better. Or an individual can practice their music.

I have no doubt that the decision in Madison was 100% for a purpose. What I'm saying is that was more of an impact than going on earlier was. There were corps below us that I'm sure had more practice time than us and were much closer.

My point is that start times shouldn't be to blame. If a corps truly wants to get better, there are creative ways to get it done. It just feels like a cop out to me to blame results on having to get there earlier than another corps. I will agree that it absolutely has an effect with the judging panel but that's a completely different topic that I'd rather not dive into haha.

[garfield]

29 minutes ago, East9900 said:

I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean they had time to go back to the rehearsal site and rehearse. I am referring to practicing in the lot. Usually corps don't leave immediately after their performance. I haven't been to as many shows as I used to, but I'm pretty sure the corps has to stay around until the end at least (due to drum major only 'retreats'). If they don't do that at all anymore and leave immediately than my point is void.

When I marched, there were times after our performance that we would practice as a section in the lot. That is what I am referring to. As a member I hated those times so I'm sure they would as well. But what I'm saying is if those corps have to stick around until the end, that is plenty of time to squeeze a sectional in and get better. Or an individual can practice their music.

I have no doubt that the decision in Madison was 100% for a purpose. What I'm saying is that was more of an impact than going on earlier was. There were corps below us that I'm sure had more practice time than us and were much closer.

My point is that start times shouldn't be to blame. If a corps truly wants to get better, there are creative ways to get it done. It just feels like a cop out to me to blame results on having to get there earlier than another corps. I will agree that it absolutely has an effect with the judging panel but that's a completely different topic that I'd rather not dive into haha.

Corps don't stay around anymore.  They head off immediately, leaving the DM with a vehicle (souvie van, etc) to accept awards and catch the corps at a pit stop later.

An issue most forget to include is that today's caravans of corps vehicles makes it almost impossible to get all eight (say) performing corps' vehicles into a school parking lot.  For this reason, early-performing corps are usually shooed out of the stadium so the later corps can get their equipment in to the performance venue.  Parking logistics have taken on as much importance to show logistics as getting the corps on and off the field in time.

Any "rehearsal" in the lot is frowned on at most venues because the practice can be heard in the stadium.  Most Warm-Up Zones are a LONG way from the performance stadium for this reason.

I agree that creativity can carry a corps a long way, but getting 8 hours of sleep and being sensitive to noise ordinances in most school districts makes it almost impossible for early-performance corps (also early-arriving at the next show site) to get up early and practice to make up travel hours.

I didn't used to believe the claims of performance times, but then I started volunteering at a show and saw first hand that corps going on at 7pm were leaving their venues 3 hours earlier than the last performance corps, effectively granting later performers extra rehearsal time not available to early-step-off corps.

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, garfield said:

An issue most forget to include is that today's caravans of corps vehicles makes it almost impossible to get all eight (say) performing corps' vehicles into a school parking lot.  For this reason, early-performing corps are usually shooed out of the stadium so the later corps can get their equipment in to the performance venue.  Parking logistics have taken on as much importance to show logistics as getting the corps on and off the field in time.

Oh holy cow can I attest to this.  It's absolutely amazing the games of Jenga the equipment managers are doing with trucks and busses today.  (To be fair, though, I've also now seen the same thing in action x10 at larger band festivals too!)

Mike

[Eleran]

2 hours ago, garfield said:

... corps going on at 7pm were leaving their venues 3 hours earlier than the last performance corps, effectively granting later performers extra rehearsal time not available to early-step-off corps.

However, doesn't that also mean that after they perform they can get on the road hours earlier to their next venue?  So conceivably they would arrive and get floor time much earlier in the night/morning than higher-performing corps, and if that is the case, those corps should be able to take advantage of that fact by waking at dawn and beginning rehearsals earlier than higher-performing corps, who sometimes don't really start work until 9 am because they only rolled into town around 5 or 6 am.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Eleran

[garfield]

11 minutes ago, Eleran said:

However, doesn't that also mean that after they perform they can get on the road hours earlier to their next venue?  So conceivably they would arrive and get floor time much earlier in the night/morning than higher-performing corps, and if that is the case, those corps should be able to take advantage of that fact by waking at dawn and beginning rehearsals earlier than higher-performing corps, who sometimes don't really start work until 9 am because they only rolled into town around 5 or 6 am.

Yes, except for noise restrictions against early morning noise around schools. Usually, 9am is start time so earlier starts are not feasible (but breakfast is GREAT!)

Edited July 8, 2019 by garfield