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5 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

Yeah whatever. People don’t fit into these hot and cold categories. Cadets are great and legendary but I can assure you time marches on. Whatever pull “legendary history” has on you—it does not have on everyone else. 

Wrote something, but erased it.  I think that some with a Cadet background have difficulty seeing the future without a large component of the past.  There is something about having too much history.

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Saw the show yesterday, I was trying to post a review but the comments tool wasn't working? If this gets posted I'll start typing one up. Edit: Hey it works finally, OK I'll edit this periodicall

The staff says the talent in the corps is across the board better than last year and they have high expectations from all captions. The design team has created a show from scratch and not "band-aid" (

public FB post (hope it is ok I'm sharing it here) from a 2019 Cadets brass member about one of his teachers in particular but also about the great tradition of alumni "lending" their corps jackets to

5 hours ago, dcibrando said:

visual, guard, and percussion folks I get... but I guess I was referring to more overall show design

The visual people drive the show designs too. It's not an accident that the same program coordinator at Cavaliers who was winning when Gaines was on staff turned out one bad show after another for them after Gaines left, and when he goes to SCV and Gaines comes back to the activity, he's winning at SCV. 

The visual people come up with the concepts, everyone else just tries to keep up.

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1 hour ago, Glenn426 said:

These group of individual have the ability to create something that is tried and proven. The Cadets. They are The Cadets.

Unproven, Untested Designers despite being "new or Fresh" wouldn't be Cadets, it would be something else. And I would venture to say that What the Alumni want are THE Cadets. Not something else. 

I don't disagree with you, and do think this could work for a while, maybe even long term if they can adjust to the modern DCI. 

But remember, what we think of as classic Cadets came from some people in the Boston area who were working with 27th Lancers (Zingali, Sylvester, Bonfigalo, and others). When 27th was running out of money and near the end Garfield snatched some young, up-and-coming designers and teachers who were ready to change the landscape. It would not be a mistake, IMO, for Cadets to look outside of the organization and alumni tree. The Bluecoats reinvented themselves with instructors from all over, including many old Garfield folks. 

Many Madison alumni have felt for years that the corps hired too often from within and that led to many issues. 

 

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17 minutes ago, PamahoNow said:

Wrote something, but erased it.  I think that some with a Cadet background have difficulty seeing the future without a large component of the past.  There is something about having too much history.

If the goal is to be a relevant and competitive corps in the 2020s, then there's definitely something about having too much history.

Like it or not, groups like Bluecoats and SCV have changed the activity in the last couple of years. They have brought new design and instruction capabilities to the table (costuming, sound design, scene design, props, staging, ...). If you want to be in the conversation, you're going to have to master these things. Maybe Cadets will ultimately do something very different with these tools than the current leaders. But first they have to learn to use them.

For a reality check on how a well-performed Cadets-style visual program would fare in 2019, just check out Crown. They were 6th in GE at San Antonio. I would guess that no GE judges put them in the top 3 between now and finals.

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8 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said:

If the goal is to be a relevant and competitive corps in the 2020s, then there's definitely something about having too much history.

Like it or not, groups like Bluecoats and SCV have changed the activity in the last couple of years. They have brought new design and instruction capabilities to the table (costuming, sound design, scene design, props, staging, ...). If you want to be in the conversation, you're going to have to master these things. Maybe Cadets will ultimately do something very different with these tools than the current leaders. But first they have to learn to use them.

For a reality check on how a well-performed Cadets-style visual program would fare in 2019, just check out Crown. They were 6th in GE at San Antonio. I would guess that no GE judges put them in the top 3 between now and finals.

I agree completely.  SCV in the 2000s and 2010s when they were finishing in the 4th to 7th range, almost always had one of my very favorite shows.  They were good, very good.  But since 2017 they changed.  And for the better.  Each of the last three shows have been excellent.  Bluecoats started making a transition in 2013 (at least) and have been a leader since then.  And the Blue Devils have been right up there using the new technologies and methodologies.  

Bluecoats do have an emphasis on tradition.  Each year they spend an evening with "History Night" .  I'm sure many corps do something similar.  And they have their own traditions (penny, six words, Autumn Leaves).  But they have made a new tradition of being innovative, fun, challenging the status quo, even making mistakes at times and learning from them.

I also agree about Crown's show.  Good/Great Show.  I like it.  But it is a 4/5 show at best.  And I see why you equate their show to classic Cadet shows.

Cadets can again become competitive and I would love to see this.  They have tried to use electronics effectively, but I don't think they have been successful.  They have tried "costuming", but again do not seem comfortable with what they are doing.  I've expressed it elsewhere, they need to do a fun show about something or nothing important, just good music, with a visual package that communicates that fun.  Dark Shows, Relevant Shows, Important Shows should be forgotten.  

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2 minutes ago, PamahoNow said:

Cadets can again become competitive and I would love to see this.  They have tried to use electronics effectively, but I don't think they have been successful.  They have tried "costuming", but again do not seem comfortable with what they are doing.  I've expressed it elsewhere, they need to do a fun show about something or nothing important, just good music, with a visual package that communicates that fun.  Dark Shows, Relevant Shows, Important Shows should be forgotten.

There is a huge opportunity right now for someone to reinvent how music is depicted visually. Most are doing a bunch of over-layered mess that occasionally lines up with musical points of emphasis. That goes for color guard as well as drill staging, as it's evolved into a technique spectacle that on rare occasions reflects musical moods and phrasing. 

The Zingali drills really DID look like the music, and enhanced what you were hearing by the way their flow was so well matched to the phrasing, tempos and changes of feel.

Don't go back to that, but come up with a new approach that cuts through the clutter.

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3 hours ago, Glenn426 said:

My wife, A Cadet HOF member has an intensely strong personal Friendship with these people having served on the same staff with them for several years at Cadets. We all catch up every year at WGI and have discussed the situation at Cadets in passing. There are no ill feelings towards the Cadets from any of the parties mentioned.

Cool. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, PamahoNow said:

Wrote something, but erased it.  I think that some with a Cadet background have difficulty seeing the future without a large component of the past.  There is something about having too much history.

When you get into your 40s and have young adult kids and you talk about things that they have zero reference to...yeah it changes you.

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is it time to split the world class division into 2 different ones?  older style drum corps groups v/s WGI/BOA anything goes groups?   sound crazy I know but...you have Cadets, Phantom, Madison, groups like that who have won but aren't keeping up with the (crazy) trends.  The crowds today can still be wowed by fast tempos good music crazy drill without having spandex on props and half the corps mic'ed  call me crazy old school whatever that's fine, but it won't be much longer before woodwinds come into play... then I think it's time for the 2 divisions honestly because at that point drum corps is basically summer BOA/WGI

 

ready for the backlash to my post from some in 3...2...1...

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5 minutes ago, dcibrando said:

is it time to split the world class division into 2 different ones?  older style drum corps groups v/s WGI/BOA anything goes groups?   sound crazy I know but...you have Cadets, Phantom, Madison, groups like that who have won but aren't keeping up with the (crazy) trends.  The crowds today can still be wowed by fast tempos good music crazy drill without having spandex on props and half the corps mic'ed  call me crazy old school whatever that's fine, but it won't be much longer before woodwinds come into play... then I think it's time for the 2 divisions honestly because at that point drum corps is basically summer BOA/WGI

Really seem to be fascinated by Spandex, there.

Go watch the alumni corps show at DCA and see how the crowd (such as it is - a few hundred people at best) responds to old style drum corps. Then ask a bunch of 18 year olds "hey, would you guys rather march a show like Bluecoats or Vanguard, or do a 1990s style show?" and see what kind of response you get.

Cadets have a bad show concept and only average talent in the horn line this year. They also have an excellent percussion section and I hope for their sake that they end up beating Boston in percussion in Indy,  just to show the Boston BOD a big middle finger when it comes to staying relevant even when someone else buys away your top instructional talent.

They'll figure it out, as long as their alums stay supportive and the corps leadership is given the opportunity to make mistakes or miscues as they come up with the new identity of the corps, one free from GH. They'll be fine, in other words.

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