Interesting occurrence at I&E this year

[garfield]

1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

Not sure anyone has argued that the disqualification was inappropriate/against the rules or code of conduct. I think we are all in agreement with that. 

What I think the disagreement is on whether this was a worthy way to bring awareness to the issue after DCI remained largely silent about it all season. 

What's missing in your argument is the recognition that DCI has NOT remained silent all summer.  There's been a TON done in the ranks of the corps to implement P&P that were never addressed prior.

If the I&E "performance" was based on some protest of DCI's "silence", then the MM has no real clue about what's actually been done in the activity, and the MM's corps has not done a very good job of reflecting their own changes as well as those of the other corps in the activity.  This is all public knowledge, and I've yet to find a corps, member, staff, or admin that is not anxious to share the P&P improvements attained just this year.

 

[KVG_DC]

I&E probably isn't a top 25 place for me either.  I wouldn't have chosen it. But I can see where an MM who feels that nothing much is being said at finals about this might come to the  conclusion where they decide, "Ok, this is where I'm doing it."  

Again, the whole spectrum of the activity top to bottom has to look at this.  That means people in different places (DCI admin, corps officials, parents, MMs, alumni, fans) are gonna find different places and ways to do it and probably prioritize those places and ways differently.  

[JimF-LowBari]

And let’s not think that all corps are hitting this the same way. You can follow direction from above in different ways. Anything from serious and paying lip service. No idea what the individual corps are doing but have seen it in other places

Edited August 12, 2018 by JimF-LowBari

[KVG_DC]

3 minutes ago, garfield said:

What's missing in your argument is the recognition that DCI has NOT remained silent all summer.  There's been a TON done in the ranks of the corps to implement P&P that were never addressed prior.

If the I&E "performance" was based on some protest of DCI's "silence", then the MM has no real clue about what's actually been done in the activity, and the MM's corps has not done a very good job of reflecting their own changes as well as those of the other corps in the activity.  This is all public knowledge, and I've yet to find a corps, member, staff, or admin that is not anxious to share the P&P improvements attained just this year.

  

I'm betting that some feel that P&P isn't the only way to address the issue.  It might fantastically protect current and future members, but does it allow for an honest expression of the hurt and harm and work toward healing?  Something more than a policy will likely be needed. That's where statements in spotlight moments make a difference.  

Recall the issues many had with Cadets original board and DCI's statements about being 'tone deaf' to the pain of victims...simple "we now have a policy that states...and prevents...and these actions will be taken..." is absolutely the right thing to do, but the relational process of healing doesn't happen quite that way for many people.  This is where Cadets SHOW on the field was amazing and Claire's leadership in this was amazing for me.  The heart and hope it conveyed and communicated was...very healing to see, for me at least.  I can't speak for the women who were victimized and both love the Cadets and their time there and hate what happened to them at the same time.  But it seemed a great effort by the Cadets to extend the welcome to those who'd been hurt to embrace the Cadets without having to feel that hurt so keenly.

 

[BigW]

The whole thing reminded me pretty quickly of this:

 

Does it make a  people uncomfortable, does it make people disagree at the event and even today about its appropriateness?

 

Regardless of my personal political leanings, I think this individual had the right to do what they did. The judges had a right to DQ if what was done fell within what constitutes a DQ in the rules. It may have upset people, it might have angered some. Regardless, I respect what was done. Was it the 'right' place to do it? For that individual who did it, obviously, yes. We can believe otherwise, but maybe that's the final arbiter as long as no one's put at risk or no laws are broken.

 

A lot of this discussion also reminded me of this picture, (Blue Stars 2006 anyone!?):

 

 

Some comment on the painting as a comment on civility in disagreement, something that's become more difficult to attain.

 

As for the thought someone posted, what if a corps decided to use their time and protest instead of perform the show? Wow. Gutsy. Corps have already protested at shows, I.C. Reveries, anyone?

 

 

I'd think for something like that to happen... the corps would have to be unanimous in their decision, and believe that what they spoke up or acted out on was worth effectively blowing up their entire season for. Would it upset people, sure. Maybe that would be their point. Whether one approves, agrees, or shakes their head, at least think about what was done and why, and try and start the conversation there.

 

With the NFL issue, the why it's being done was buried in the argument. Does it solve anything? No.

 

 

 

 

[CD23]

3 hours ago, DCIdad said:

And why is this your decision, and your decision only to make? Was twitter the right place to discuss #metoo?  Many people didn't think it was. Is the national anthem an appropriate place to raise attention to issues of racism? Many don't think it is. 

In my opinion (and yes you can disagree), DCI should have had a public service announcement before finals encouraging youth to speak up and report abuse. As much as anything that was the underlying issue with this Hopkins situation, and this would have been a tremendous platform to get that message out. 

I personally don't feel strongly about this stunt (if there really was one) at I&E - doesn't seem like a tremendously effective way to highlight the issue, but I also don't feel like I can condemn it unless I understand the background and rationale for doing so. Was this person an abuse victim? Is this person aware that abuse is still happening in DCI? I don't know. 

Your obvious condescension, and attempt to be authoritative on this issue is what everyone is reacting to, not the fact that you want to share your opinion on this matter. But remember, it IS only an opinion. We all have 'em. 

It's not my decision to make.  We are just discussing whether or not this should be encouraged and allowed in I&E.  I have no power over this happening or not, nor do I claim to have any.  This is an interesting debate tactic a few of you are using in this thread.  I keep having to defend myself from things I never said.  

Yes, people have different opinions.  Cool.  I'm giving mine and asking questions about others (although they usually don't answer them). Quit playing a victim --- I'm not trying to assert authority on you or anyone else.  If people misrepresent my views don't get all upset if I respond.  

I saw this thread start with people encouraging this members action.  I don't think it should be encouraged.  

[Incognito365]

There are all kinds of forms of protest. Who's to say which is right and which is wrong? He among those without sin shall cast the first stone. There's not one person alive who hasn't sinned, so why is everyone casting stones? They did it, it's done. I'm sure there will be new rules implemented next year. Lets move on.

[DCIdad]

13 minutes ago, CD23 said:

It's not my decision to make.  We are just discussing whether or not this should be encouraged and allowed in I&E.  I have no power over this happening or not, nor do I claim to have any.  This is an interesting debate tactic a few of you are using in this thread.  I keep having to defend myself from things I never said.  

What are you talking about? I was responding directly to your very words.  You made the absolute statement below - not an opinion, an assertion. I responded directly to that. 

3 hours ago, CD23 said:

I&E is not the appropriate place to discuss it.  I can't make that any clearer. 

This is not at all a debate tactic, although I appreciate you trying to marginalize it by characterizing it as such. 

I'm not playing the victim - you are the one that has complained several times about people twisting your words. I was trying to share with you how you are coming across to everyone, but it appears you are uninterested in that insight.  

[CD23]

3 minutes ago, DCIdad said:

What are you talking about? I was responding directly to your very words.  You made the absolute statement below - not an opinion, an assertion. I responded directly to that. 

We will just have to chalk that up to the difficulty of communicating clearly on the internet.  I assure you, that was my OPINION.  I didn't think I had to state that because it's not a statement that could ever be factual -- whichever way you lean. 

 

Ex: Blue is the best color.  That's my opinion -- yes I worded it in a strong way but that couldn't possibly be a fact.  You really just want to start arguing semantics? 

[JimF-LowBari]

2 minutes ago, CD23 said:

We will just have to chalk that up to the difficulty of communicating clearly on the internet.  I assure you, that was my OPINION.  I didn't think I had to state that because it's not a statement that could ever be factual -- whichever way you lean. 

 

Ex: Blue is the best color.  That's my opinion -- yes I worded it in a strong way but that couldn't possibly be a fact.  You really just want to start arguing semantics? 

Oh I’ve seen statements like that on other social media and people were stating it as a fact. IOW you can never tell for sure unless someone spells it out