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Carolina Crown 2019


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Everything comes and goes, If by chance Crown goes in a different direction next year and Crown is not Running and gunning but are instead doing more staging, more hold sets to make the music easier to play and are rewarded for it, I'd be hard pressed to see Crown fans complain about it.

IMO, Crown is being rewarded in the Visual captions as of late for the demand in their drill in the Proficiency and Analysis captions. And I would think that if the GE Visual Judge and criteria still existed they would be getting credit there because the Visual coming off of the Corps proper is of high demand and is being marched fairly well,

But the GE1 or GE2 captions blend the two together, and in taking account the Guard and the complete show as a whole, there seems to be a missing element in the way the Audio Relates to the Visual that the judges are not crediting as much. Some have suggested the Guard costume blending in too much with the Corps, and that might be part of it but there has to be something deeper. Perhaps not enough Show Theme, Problems with the plexiglass and not being visible from the Box, Outside of having good music and good drill this show is lacking in the total package that has won championships in recent years.. 

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15 minutes ago, Glenn426 said:

Everything comes and goes, If by chance Crown goes in a different direction next year and Crown is not Running and gunning but are instead doing more staging, more hold sets to make the music easier to play and are rewarded for it, I'd be hard pressed to see Crown fans complain about it.

IMO, Crown is being rewarded in the Visual captions as of late for the demand in their drill in the Proficiency and Analysis captions. And I would think that if the GE Visual Judge and criteria still existed they would be getting credit there because the Visual coming off of the Corps proper is of high demand and is being marched fairly well,

But the GE1 or GE2 captions blend the two together, and in taking account the Guard and the complete show as a whole, there seems to be a missing element in the way the Audio Relates to the Visual that the judges are not crediting as much. Some have suggested the Guard costume blending in too much with the Corps, and that might be part of it but there has to be something deeper. Perhaps not enough Show Theme, Problems with the plexiglass and not being visible from the Box, Outside of having good music and good drill this show is lacking in the total package that has won championships in recent years.. 

Check George Oliviero's scoring for whatever corps/designer does run and gun. He'll always have them down whether taught by Zingali, Sully, Gaines pre-Vanguard, Sacktig, or Pete Weber. He could never teach, has been accused of jealousy of those who can, and Crown is suffering his low marks this season. Although he has been a guru judge in DCI/WGI since moving to Logan H.S. faculty in Cali, he's one of the few current judges in the caption who has not taught drill/visual probably not since his days with Cambridge Caballeros in the early '70's. Where most judges take a sabbatical season or two to get on the field with the current mms, dotbooks, drillpads, and today's tablets, somehow he's been exempt.  He always had Cadets down under Zingali and most of the units designed by Zingali's disciples.  Sacktig is in that lineage and Crown is suffering from G.O.'s no-go. I schooled in the same apprentice judging clinics that G.O. did back in Boston BITD so I've been measuring the flow of the river for awhile.  He and his Chum(ley)s hold run and gun to a far different standard than the park & barks.

 

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1 minute ago, xandandl said:

Check George Oliviero's scoring for whatever corps/designer does run and gun. He'll always have them down whether taught by Zingali, Sully, Gaines pre-Vanguard, Sacktig, or Pete Weber. He could never teach, has been accused of jealousy of those who can, and Crown is suffering his low marks this season. Although he has been a guru judge in DCI/WGI since moving to Logan H.S. faculty in Cali, he's one of the few current judges in the caption who has not taught drill/visual probably not since his days with Cambridge Caballeros in the early '70's. Where most judges take a sabbatical season or two to get on the field with the current mms, dotbooks, drillpads, and today's tablets, somehow he's been exempt.  He always had Cadets down under Zingali and most of the units designed by Zingali's disciples.  Sacktig is in that lineage and Crown is suffering from G.O.'s no-go. I schooled in the same apprentice judging clinics that G.O. did back in Boston BITD so I've been measuring the flow of the river for awhile.  He and his Chum(ley)s hold run and gun to a far different standard than the park & barks.

 

Not familiar with GO and his bias ( I am now) but I am familiar with Chumley and his tendencies, Flanagan who is full of Cadet alums and influences had to deal with his biases all the time in years past.

It's the name of the game, all of these judges have their backgrounds in what they are and they give credit to what they know and appreciate. That's why I always ask for who the judges are because sitting in many a WGI Critique room you know that not all achievement is equal, The Judge draw will make a difference in how the captions shake out.. You just hope that you get a good draw on finals night and your group has a great run.. 

I've not had the privilege of sitting in on a DCI Critique but I would imagine it is just as lively and filled with even more testosterone with the Drum and Brass guys involved defending and trying to pull credit out from the judges.. 

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23 hours ago, Glenn426 said:

Not familiar with GO and his bias ( I am now) but I am familiar with Chumley and his tendencies, Flanagan who is full of Cadet alums and influences had to deal with his biases all the time in years past.

It's the name of the game, all of these judges have their backgrounds in what they are and they give credit to what they know and appreciate. That's why I always ask for who the judges are because sitting in many a WGI Critique room you know that not all achievement is equal, The Judge draw will make a difference in how the captions shake out.. You just hope that you get a good draw on finals night and your group has a great run.. 

I've not had the privilege of sitting in on a DCI Critique but I would imagine it is just as lively and filled with even more testosterone with the Drum and Brass guys involved defending and trying to pull credit out from the judges.. 

DCI critiques aren't what they once were now that much of the communication is done via emails, texts, and tablets. But your estimate of entertainment for the fly on the wall is not off the mark. It wasn't always so enjoyable to be the chief referee and timekeeper to say the discussion was over for tonight for this or that corps.  Just don't leave the females out of the equation.  A judge never wanted to cross Sandra Opie when she taught that phenomenal hornline at the SkyRyders Argonne Rebels, Shirlee Dougherty when she taught BD's guard, etc., etc. The critique energies of "dialogue" between judges and instructors/designers/management wasn't just a guy thing.

Edited by xandandl
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Anyone know of any planned changes to any parts of the show during this three day stint of rehearsal? Coming down the home stretch!

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1 hour ago, CrownedSantaPhantom said:

Anyone know of any planned changes to any parts of the show during this three day stint of rehearsal? Coming down the home stretch!

When I asked my daughter if there will be changes this week, she replied, "Yes." That's as much info as I could get. 

Edited by lyndakay27
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4 days to rehearse changes before the next show. Can’t wait to see what they have in store. Hope to see the gaps close even more on Friday night! Let’s go Crown!

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On 7/22/2019 at 1:37 PM, Sideways said:

Could not disagree with you more...

Brass and percussion are killer this year and no one will dispute that. Not to mention I absolutely love this music book!  The drill is fantastic and they have been top three in VA nearly all season, including over SCV in San Antonio.  There are GE issues with the show which have not improved much since I first saw them in Detroit...biggest hit of the show is the opening.  That alone is not a good formula for GE success. 

They have started to layer chorale parts over the brass...some may like that but to me it is clutter and takes away from the clarity of the brass and lessens the effect.  Guard is improved and the staging is general very good...but as discussed ad nauseum, a lot of their efforts are getting washed out because of the color palette.  Flags are popping out but the weapons and any body work are just lost from up top.  Closer is structured very well but still feels extremely controlled...staff needs to unleash the hounds and let the kids wail.  Oh and the props...we will put those in the "why bother" category.

GE numbers have nothing to do with the "run and gun" design the kids have been given or because of their performance level.  There are several design & pacing issues that are holding this vehicle back...not to beat a dead horse but when the last 11 minutes of the show do not hold up the first minute...you have a problem.

Love Crown. Love this show...mostly. Can admit the closer is kind of a slog to get through in its repetition and head bops until the company front.

I wonder about the guard, as this is the second Michael Townsend alum at the helm. It makes me think how involved they’re allowed to be in the process.

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19 hours ago, xandandl said:

DCI critiques aren't what they once were now that much of the communication is done via emails, texts, and tablets. But your estimate of entertainment for the fly on the wall is not off the mark. It wasn't always so enjoyable to be the chief referee and timekeeper to say the discussion was over for tonight for this or that corps.  Just don't leave the females out of the equation.  A judge never wanted to cross Sandra Opie when she taught that phenomenal hornline at the SkyRyders, Shirlee Dougherty when she taught BD's guard, etc., etc. The critique energies of "dialogue" between judges and instructors/designers/management wasn't just a guy thing.

Sandra Opie taught the Argonne Rebels hornlike, not the Skyriders.   I know, I was there.   

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