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1 hour ago, karuna said:

ANYWAY

It will be interesting to see where Crown veers to next.  My comments were made with the wonderful aid of hindsight.  I want them to keep exploring new avenues but I also want them to make choices that make their intent more visually transparent.  Sure some of those choices may be conventional but they also happen to make sense on the sheets.  Showcase the musicians but not to the detriment of conceptual flow.  Make bold choices in color but remain conscious of the stage in which the performers appear.  Most of all keep being awesome!

I have to admit, I have some experience with drum corps and I couldn't figure out what the ribs/claws/teeth were supposed to be.  I said this midseason, but this sure still feels like a show that looked way better on paper than it did in practice.  Crown's design team is awesome - one fuzzy show isn't a systemic disaster - and had been on a loooong winning streak up to now with their choices (except for the end of Relentless!), so I'm not worried at all for next year.

Mike

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37 minutes ago, MikeN said:

I have to admit, I have some experience with drum corps and I couldn't figure out what the ribs/claws/teeth were supposed to be.  I said this midseason, but this sure still feels like a show that looked way better on paper than it did in practice.  Crown's design team is awesome - one fuzzy show isn't a systemic disaster - and had been on a loooong winning streak up to now with their choices (except for the end of Relentless!), so I'm not worried at all for next year.

Mike

I see this (and much, much worse condemnations of "Beast") and then I see that they finished in 4th place, regularly taking captions from all the corps above them,  and have a hard time calling it a failure or miss notwithstanding all the resident DCP Design ExpertsTM.    I personally felt like a failure if I ever designed anything that held the performers back and I'm probably projecting that a bit onto the Crown design team.  I'm sure they never want to feel like they've let the kids down in any aspect of their design.  IMHO since 2008 Crown has had performers with more than enough ability to win every year so naturally as fans we want to see the corps fulfill that potential.  I see absolutely no reason to change that belief.  And while I wanted them to pass BD and Bloo (no one was catching SCV this year) I don't view this season as a "bad design" in any rational analysis.  Did it have shortcomings? Yeah but every show does -- even those that win.  I think the current design team is still "settling in" and their product will only continue to get better. I fully expect Crown to be back in the medal hunt in 2019.    

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47 minutes ago, MikeN said:

I have to admit, I have some experience with drum corps and I couldn't figure out what the ribs/claws/teeth were supposed to be.  I said this midseason, but this sure still feels like a show that looked way better on paper than it did in practice.  Crown's design team is awesome - one fuzzy show isn't a systemic disaster - and had been on a loooong winning streak up to now with their choices (except for the end of Relentless!), so I'm not worried at all for next year.

Mike

Yep, those stationary white props were much more ambiguous than Karuna would have us believe. Fuzzy is a perfect word for the show, as the uniforms made the visual design muddy and the concept was not very clear consistently throughout the show. 

But you are correct, one muddy design doesn't mean the design team is a disaster. It was just a year where they were off their game. 

Side note, I felt like Crown's new ending in Relentless was a significant improvement to the show, but I know I'm in the minority with that opinion

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14 hours ago, Incognito365 said:

10th is a bit of a stretch. 

You are right and I apologize. In reality it was more like 14th or 15th in design or should have been. Of the top 12 them and Phantom are neck and neck for design failure. If any corps from say 8-12 would have had Crown's show they would not have made the Saturday show. It was that bad. It was like the music designers and visual designers worked in silos until May and then decided to show each other what they were working on at move ins.

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22 minutes ago, karuna said:

I see this (and much, much worse condemnations of "Beast") and then I see that they finished in 4th place, regularly taking captions from all the corps above them,  and have a hard time calling it a failure or miss notwithstanding all the resident DCP Design ExpertsTM.    I personally felt like a failure if I ever designed anything that held the performers back and I'm probably projecting that a bit onto the Crown design team.  I'm sure they never want to feel like they've let the kids down in any aspect of their design.  IMHO since 2008 Crown has had performers with more than enough ability to win every year so naturally as fans we want to see the corps fulfill that potential.  I see absolutely no reason to change that belief.  And while I wanted them to pass BD and Bloo (no one was catching SCV this year) I don't view this season as a "bad design" in any rational analysis.  Did it have shortcomings? Yeah but every show does -- even those that win.  I think the current design team is still "settling in" and their product will only continue to get better. I fully expect Crown to be back in the medal hunt in 2019.    

I hope so. Hopefully this was just a year when they were off their game. The guard needs to improve (no surprise there) and I would to like see a new visual head ( I might be in the minority on that). Jeff's writing is like day old bread that's getting stale as there was nothing visually stimulating or exciting in the show (IMO).  Musically they are fine and I think most Crown fans will agree on that (the brass last Saturday night was on their game, I thought they might win the Ott, but I was wrong). Also, maybe they need to change up their look a bit and go back to the cream unis/costumes and an improved show design from Rick is needed or they might start falling down the ranks to BAC, Cavs & Cadets who aren't that far behind them. Let's see what 2019 brings us Crown fans..

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57 minutes ago, ndrudy2013 said:

I hope so. Hopefully this was just a year when they were off their game. The guard needs to improve (no surprise there) and I would to like see a new visual head ( I might be in the minority on that). Jeff's writing is like day old bread that's getting stale as there was nothing visually stimulating or exciting in the show (IMO).  Musically they are fine and I think most Crown fans will agree on that (the brass last Saturday night was on their game, I thought they might win the Ott, but I was wrong). Also, maybe they need to change up their look a bit and go back to the cream unis/costumes and an improved show design from Rick is needed or they might start falling down the ranks to BAC, Cavs & Cadets who aren't that far behind them. Let's see what 2019 brings us Crown fans..

I really would like to see them go back to cream. The only time this style of uniform has looked good was in 2013 and 2016 in my opinion. The other years I felt like the unis were a bit of a miss (though still a lot better than some of the WGI uniforms that have been put on the field in the past few years)

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Crown has finished outside the top 4 once in the last 11 years, so whatever shortcomings they may have in any one year are not a huge detriment to the corps in respect to their placement in finals.  The level of musicianship from the kids auditioning is incredible and the education that they are receiving it incredibly tuned in to what the staff wants the final product to be. 

Having said that...I think the same kids doing a "better" show in many of the last ten years would have produced a higher spot in finals.  I think 2013 was a great show (except for the stupid vocals over the ballad).  But then 2014 came along and just fell flat to me.  Then 2015 comes along and it was fantastic...to be followed by 2016, 2017 and 2018...all 'duds' in my mind for various reasons...great moments in those years, but not great complete packages, in my opinion.

Having marched Crown in the early 90's, it's odd.  In almost every way, it is like watching a different organization with the same name.  There are some familiar faces still around but, for example, there's a corps song that doesn't mean anything to anyone that marched the first ten years of the corps...there's the same two paragraphs on the alumni association web page that seem as if they've been there forever.  It seems like Crown has a short memory and if you're not doing something for the current Crown, then you're definitely in the background.  There are a lot of corps out there that have been more successful for a longer period of time and they have strong alumni associations.  I'm a part of many alumni groups where there is more communication/activity than "send in a donation".

Then again...I like miss bugles and marching, too...so I guess it would be impossible to overstate the irrelevance of me or my opinion, lol. 

 

By the way, Happy 25th Anniversary to the 1993 edition of Carolina Crown.  It was 25 years ago today that we won the 1st World Championship for the Crown.

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4 hours ago, Spatzzz said:

You are right and I apologize. In reality it was more like 14th or 15th in design or should have been. Of the top 12 them and Phantom are neck and neck for design failure. If any corps from say 8-12 would have had Crown's show they would not have made the Saturday show. It was that bad. It was like the music designers and visual designers worked in silos until May and then decided to show each other what they were working on at move ins.

Somebody is full of ####. :felloff:

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7 hours ago, Cappybara said:

Yep, those stationary white props were much more ambiguous than Karuna would have us believe. Fuzzy is a perfect word for the show, as the uniforms made the visual design muddy and the concept was not very clear consistently throughout the show. 

But you are correct, one muddy design doesn't mean the design team is a disaster. It was just a year where they were off their game. 

Side note, I felt like Crown's new ending in Relentless was a significant improvement to the show, but I know I'm in the minority with that opinion

At the risk of losing what could one day be my future dentist, we’re going to have to part ways on Relentless’ finale.

I recall all the hub-bub over gun violence on the CC thread that season. Honestly, I was fine with sparing the villan’s life, though I wish that could have been incorporated without altering the music so much.

But let’s be honest: everybody else was simply contending for 2nd in 2016.

Like E=MC2 and Downside Up, I believe there would have been rioting in LOS had SCV not been awarded the Founders Trophy this year.

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3 hours ago, Incognito365 said:

Somebody is full of ####. :felloff:

I agree, but I think you should give the Bluecoats their chair back.

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