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5 minutes ago, Brass Lover said:

Blue Devils are the only ones that do the fluttering really well. There's a very defined technique to it and actual timing to the steps. It's quite impressive to watch.

It wouldn't bother me if it were done sparingly.  When it's every single transition, just can't bring myself to applaud it.  I'm a fan of coordinated precision, not organized chaos.  

In defense of BD , they were moving well at the beginning of their 2018 show.

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16 minutes ago, Tommeee said:

Yeah, but isn't it FUNNY that it wasn't too long ago, people were complaining about Crown doing all the body movement and dance?  And NOW, people here in the Crown thread are complaining about other corps doing the flutter step (or whatever they call it).

I agree, I'd like to see more interesting/challenging drill.  And if a corps does it well, I want to see them rewarded for it.  But I don't know if that is going to happen.

You’re conflating dance choreography with fluttering to travel.  They are two different things.  Crown has always done much of the former and little of the latter with both Leon and Jeff.  

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4 minutes ago, Ediker said:

It wouldn't bother me if it were done sparingly.  When it's every single transition, just can't bring myself to applaud it.  I'm a fan of coordinated precision, not organized chaos.  

In defense of BD , they were moving well at the beginning of their 2018 show.

Oh I agree, my point was Blue Devils use of it is very precise in my eyes, rather than the clumped pod mess I know youre thinking of. Metamorph was full of it, it's kinda hard to explain in words.

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26 minutes ago, Tommeee said:

Yeah, but isn't it FUNNY that it wasn't too long ago, people were complaining about Crown doing all the body movement and dance?  And NOW, people here in the Crown thread are complaining about other corps doing the flutter step (or whatever they call it).

I agree, I'd like to see more interesting/challenging drill.  And if a corps does it well, I want to see them rewarded for it.  But I don't know if that is going to happen.

I've been complaining about it for years, but I never not once complained about the body movement. In drum corps and in marching band, they teach you the fundamentals first. Marching is one of those fundamentals. If marching wasn't important, they wouldn't teach it right? I honestly had a VERY hard time watching SCV last year because of this. If I closed my eyes I had no problem.

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18 minutes ago, Ediker said:

Maybe it's great to the trained eye.  Speaking as a layman, it looks like a lazy mess.  

It’s all individual traveling.  They use good technique but the end result still completely lacks ensemble cohesiveness.  I agree with you — it looks like a mess.  And in some respects you’re not wrong about it being lazy. The designer puts in a lot time off the field to make traditional drill more efficient on the field.  The same designer spends more time on the field figuring out pathways and timing.  There is nothing inherently better about this methodology.  But it’s how many guard designers work indoor so they are more comfortable with it.  

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20 minutes ago, Brass Lover said:

Oh I agree, my point was Blue Devils use of it is very precise in my eyes, rather than the clumped pod mess I know youre thinking of. Metamorph was full of it, it's kinda hard to explain in words.

Organized or not, pods or forms, it still looks like an absolute mess to me. What gets me is it's REWARDED! I mean, if there's very little marching, you have to judge what you see, and if a show is full of intentional out of step movements theres not a whole lot of actual marching technique to judge. Which would work out to giving them a high score while the corps who actually do march get slightly harsher critiques even though their marching is clean and more impressive than a bunch of kids out of step. I see it all the time with groups that the band I work with go up against. Drives me insane!

 

Basically what it comes down to for me is they're rewarding design on the technique sheets. There's just no technique to a flutter other than pointing your toe.

Edited by Incognito365
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6 minutes ago, karuna said:

It’s all individual traveling.  They use good technique but the end result still completely lacks ensemble cohesiveness.  I agree with you — it looks like a mess.  And in some respects you’re not wrong about it being lazy. The designer puts in a lot time off the field to make traditional drill more efficient on the field.  The same designer spends more time on the field figuring out pathways and timing.  There is nothing inherently better about this methodology.  But it’s how many guard designers work indoor so they are more comfortable with it.  

Fair points

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1 hour ago, Incognito365 said:

THIS! So much this. I'm so tired of going to see marching bands or drum corps and they don't even march anymore, but rather a mixture of "park and bark" and "fluttering" to their next set to just "park and bark" again. Let's just call fluttering what it really is, being intentionally out of step. 

Oh, I’m probably gonna be sorry I did this but...giphy.gif

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5 minutes ago, Ediker said:

Fair points

Additionally it leaves the VA and VP judges with little to say.   The VP judge is left just looking for uniformity of technique.  And many of the VA criteria just don’t apply because they were developed to evaluate drill.  No one said BD doesn’t know how to play the game better!

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Just now, Terri Schehr said:

Oh, I’m probably gonna be sorry I did this but...giphy.gif

Exactly what it looks like to me, but add in 80 corps members, and have every other Homer be .3 seconds behind the other in step time. 

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