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What rule would you propose for the 2019 DCI tour?


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The woodwind debate and marching band/drum cops debate has once again reared its head. 

I can remember how heated the debates got when moved away from G Bugle and I remember all the reasons such a move was justified, some reasons more valid than others, though I did tend to agree with those who could be more cynical who believed one of the most significant reasons was that it was getting harder to recruit kids who wanted to learn the G Bugles, even though at that point it wasn't a huge switch. Trombones have not meant the end of the world and while I do not question the talents of the young people performing with trombones, I can do without them and life as I know it may come to an end if I see a Sousaphone in a drum corps performance, with the exception of Oregon Crusaders in 2013, though that was just a prop. There is a certain symmetry that I do believe would be lost with marching woodwinds and I would not want to see a  rule change  that would allow them.

Regarding the band/drum corps debate, as many posters know, back in the day Massachusetts had two summer music circuits that featured drum corps, bands, and drill teams, CYO and Eastern Mass. There was also the Mayflower Circuit which started with drum corps and eventually allowed drill trams to compete, though never the bands. Many of the drum corps and all of the bands were under the direction of Catholic parishes. Over the years I have had the opportunity to know and work with many of the founders of the drum corps and bands and people who worked with the bands and drum corps. One priest director I knew very well was associated with many of the bands and drum corps. His claim was that the drum corps were not formed in parishes for musical or marching reasons. This is not to say the music and marching did not play significant roles, they did, but they were seen as a youth activity that could be a catch-all. He's often say "drum corps was the way to bring the ball player and book worm into the same room." The competitive aspect was a source of neighborhood and parish pride. It was also a way to keep kids active and out of trouble. I know one corps used to claim, I think it may have been the St. Rocco Cadets though it could be a New Jersey story or perhaps Boston Crusaders, that one of their star performers only joined the corps because someone threw him on the bus when the corps was going on tour to keep the police from finding him. The bands were formed for different reasons. Most parishes that had bands also had schools, and the bands from parishes without schools often had members who attended Catholic schools. Most Catholic schools in the Boston area did not have bands as part of the school program. The bands formed by the parish provided musical opportunities for kids who attended the Catholic schools, and kids who attended public schools could also join, which was a way to bring the kids in the parish together. I think every kid who marched in a CYO band enjoyed the summer competitions more than concert band, and we especially loved it when our scores in percussion, M & M (marching and maneuvering), GE, and color guard (a whopping two points) were higher than the drum corps where we used the same scoring sheets, because the drum corps did look down on the bands and resented that the best drum corps often recruited from the bands. The bands had their snobbish ways too. "Marching" band is what high schools and colleges did at half time shows, nor what we did all summer.

Humility has never been a virtue acquired by drum corps, and that is something that has never changed and probably never will. Drum corps has always viewed itself as superior to bands, but drum corps does have a distinct and noble history. Bands have a history too, and for many kids, band has given their young lives meaning and purpose, especially when they begin young. Today the biggest distinction between a drum corps and a band may be the no woodwind rule, and where there are no more feeder drum corps, drum corps would not survive without school music programs, so drum corps owes a huge debt to bands. There is no problem with seeing the two activities as distinct, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying one over the other, though seeing one as superior to the other is silly in this day and age. 

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16 minutes ago, Tim K said:

Humility has never been a virtue acquired by drum corps, and that is something that has never changed and probably never will. Drum corps has always viewed itself as superior to bands, but drum corps does have a distinct and noble history. Bands have a history too, and for many kids, band has given their young lives meaning and purpose, especially when they begin young. Today the biggest distinction between a drum corps and a band may be the no woodwind rule, and where there are no more feeder drum corps, drum corps would not survive without school music programs, so drum corps owes a huge debt to bands. There is no problem with seeing the two activities as distinct, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying one over the other, though seeing one as superior to the other is silly in this day and age. 

Well said and couldn't agree more

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38 minutes ago, Tim K said:

though seeing one as superior to the other is silly in this day and age. 

 

 

Not superior but MMs in dci are better prepared to sell a show. If that is not the case, why do MMs pay their way through dci? Endure the discomforts of practice and touring.

Look at California as an example fully-engaged HS Band Programs, feed "corps ready kids" to dci. They have been dominating Open Class for years, now Gold & Golden Empire others joining the mix. The list is growing. From the top down.

They are not debating which one is better they work hand & hand and need each other. If woodwinds are introduced it not because one activity is better than the other. 

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10 hours ago, Tim K said:

Humility has never been a virtue acquired by drum corps, and that is something that has never changed and probably never will. Drum corps has always viewed itself as superior to bands, but drum corps does have a distinct and noble history. Bands have a history too, and for many kids, band has given their young lives meaning and purpose, especially when they begin young. Today the biggest distinction between a drum corps and a band may be the no woodwind rule, and where there are no more feeder drum corps, drum corps would not survive without school music programs, so drum corps owes a huge debt to bands. There is no problem with seeing the two activities as distinct, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying one over the other, though seeing one as superior to the other is silly in this day and age

Nice historical perspective.  I could almost agree with your last statement.  But I have some additional historical perspective to add.

As I see it, drum corps and marching band have both had their own "superior" aspects.  Marching band, of course, for a long time had vastly superior quality and variety of instruments.  But since the mission of a "marching band" is to include the full band, that meant using instruments which are more effective indoors than outdoors, such as woodwinds (and for many decades, non-bell-front brass instruments).  Meanwhile, drum corps had the option of choosing to focus on devices (percussion and brass) that were most effective in the parade and field settings where they performed.  Drum corps originally had a variety of bugles, fifes and bagpipes to accompany the drums.  As field competition became an established format circa 1930, most of the corps involved in it chose drums/bugles for their sound power.

So which is "superior"?  To be fair, both.

Drum corps, as far as I can tell, was superior in winning audiences over the ensuing decades.  A wide assortment of organizations sponsored both drum corps and marching band competitions side-by-side, and the drum corps contests generally drew the greater portion of interest.  So much so, in fact, that drum corps was able to establish a national touring activity on the DCI scale.  The raging popularity of drum corps even caused changes in the marching band activity, such as adopting "corps-style" show design, developing bell-front band instruments, and utilizing some percussion instruments that drum corps invented.

Marching band, on the other hand, was superior in winning a position in society.  Through scholastic music programs, marching band found a much deeper base of financial/institutional support that enabled far more ensembles to be developed.  In terms of sheer size, the scholastic music industry makes drum corps look like a needle in the music haystack.  The raging growth in competitive marching band even caused changes in the drum & bugle corps activity, such as utilizing stationary percussion instruments and adopting band brass instrumentation.

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23 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Personally enjoy the timbre of trombones much more than baritones. 

 

11 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Some corps have used them well to enhance the music.

We'll have to let these comments slide.

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14 hours ago, Tim K said:

 

The woodwind debate and marching band/drum cops debate has once again reared its head. 

I can remember how heated the debates got when moved away from G Bugle and I remember all the reasons such a move was justified, some reasons more valid than others, though I did tend to agree with those who could be more cynical who believed one of the most significant reasons was that it was getting harder to recruit kids who wanted to learn the G Bugles, even though at that point it wasn't a huge switch. Trombones have not meant the end of the world and while I do not question the talents of the young people performing with trombones, I can do without them and life as I know it may come to an end if I see a Sousaphone in a drum corps performance, with the exception of Oregon Crusaders in 2013, though that was just a prop. There is a certain symmetry that I do believe would be lost with marching woodwinds and I would not want to see a  rule change  that would allow them.

Regarding the band/drum corps debate, as many posters know, back in the day Massachusetts had two summer music circuits that featured drum corps, bands, and drill teams, CYO and Eastern Mass. There was also the Mayflower Circuit which started with drum corps and eventually allowed drill trams to compete, though never the bands. Many of the drum corps and all of the bands were under the direction of Catholic parishes. Over the years I have had the opportunity to know and work with many of the founders of the drum corps and bands and people who worked with the bands and drum corps. One priest director I knew very well was associated with many of the bands and drum corps. His claim was that the drum corps were not formed in parishes for musical or marching reasons. This is not to say the music and marching did not play significant roles, they did, but they were seen as a youth activity that could be a catch-all. He's often say "drum corps was the way to bring the ball player and book worm into the same room." The competitive aspect was a source of neighborhood and parish pride. It was also a way to keep kids active and out of trouble. I know one corps used to claim, I think it may have been the St. Rocco Cadets though it could be a New Jersey story or perhaps Boston Crusaders, that one of their star performers only joined the corps because someone threw him on the bus when the corps was going on tour to keep the police from finding him. The bands were formed for different reasons. Most parishes that had bands also had schools, and the bands from parishes without schools often had members who attended Catholic schools. Most Catholic schools in the Boston area did not have bands as part of the school program. The bands formed by the parish provided musical opportunities for kids who attended the Catholic schools, and kids who attended public schools could also join, which was a way to bring the kids in the parish together. I think every kid who marched in a CYO band enjoyed the summer competitions more than concert band, and we especially loved it when our scores in percussion, M & M (marching and maneuvering), GE, and color guard (a whopping two points) were higher than the drum corps where we used the same scoring sheets, because the drum corps did look down on the bands and resented that the best drum corps often recruited from the bands. The bands had their snobbish ways too. "Marching" band is what high schools and colleges did at half time shows, nor what we did all summer.

Humility has never been a virtue acquired by drum corps, and that is something that has never changed and probably never will. Drum corps has always viewed itself as superior to bands, but drum corps does have a distinct and noble history. Bands have a history too, and for many kids, band has given their young lives meaning and purpose, especially when they begin young. Today the biggest distinction between a drum corps and a band may be the no woodwind rule, and where there are no more feeder drum corps, drum corps would not survive without school music programs, so drum corps owes a huge debt to bands. There is no problem with seeing the two activities as distinct, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying one over the other, though seeing one as superior to the other is silly in this day and age. 

Only one person reared it. The corps have been steadfast in their opposition 

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20 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Drumline Battle also prohibits woodwinds.  That must change too, right?

I prohibit them from my home and that’s not changing 

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16 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Don't ya know, give your opinion ONLY when the mass agrees..lol

Doesn’t stop you and me lol 

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