SCV's show was an epic musical fail.


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1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

That's not what an ad hominem attack is

Is it a dental term? Cappy a little off topic but I went to the Dentist the other day with my iPod and some dci, thought that Cappy is already making a difference in his profession. I am sure you will have a calming persona that will make your patients feel at ease. Although I also thought Cappy cannot resemble my Dentist or a least I hope not.

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No.

As someone also studying for his BM, I’m confused how someone could go to Juilliard and come away with such a two dimensional sense of what good music is. I’m Confused with several of your points, esp

There's a well-known and studied psychological phenomenon called the mere-exposure effect (also called the familiarity principle). It means people develop a preference for things merely because they a

48 minutes ago, whitedj2002 said:

The merits of the OP diatribe are lost on me because of his smug, condescending nature. Spouting credentials and tell us his reality doesn't make it so. I see some charismatic style in Scott's writing and he probably has people hanging on his every word. We all know this type of individual. I am not easily impressed nor do I allow a bully to dictate how I  think/feel. I am frankly surprised Scott's interest in our passion has survived, trust me this activity will exist in some form to move people as it ever has. 

Makes the OP sound like a Crownie with a lot of butt hurt about them not winning the Ott.

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6 minutes ago, Sideways said:

Makes the OP sound like a Crownie with a lot of butt hurt about them not winning the Ott.

LOL, I don't know who he is but as usual I read between the lines for motive. Can he in his unique style be looking for some work with a corps? That seems to be the point of his lengthy outlines that spoke to everything but the music? I did a lot stranger stuff figuring out how a company configures it's email so I can land my resume on the CEO's desk very affective worked every time. 

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Original poster here. Look, I am truly sorry for sounding so condescending in my OP. As someone else pointed out, I was NOT attacking any person or any creative staff member individually. And yes—my OP was not tactful. I'm actually NOT a mean person. :biggrin:

My post admittedly came from a place of deep frustration at what—in my opinion (yes, it's an opinion)—is hearing the same kind of disjointed, jarring music coming from top corps for several years now. I was also frustrated because I keep hearing all sorts of talk about "innovation" (which is pretty wide-open term in itself), and yet from what I can see, not one corps seems to have the cojones to go out on the field and play one *fully intact* work of music (with zero cuts or edits and no park-and-blast power chords added). As others have said, my opinion is that the music has taken a backseat to the visuals—and as a musician, I hate this—and think it results in weaker shows. I know plenty don't agree–fine, don't agree.

For anyone who said I was trying to make my post about me and my degree, you clearly didn't read my OP. I don't give a flip about my degree—it's just what I got, and I only mentioned it to point out I spent a long time deeply immersed in musical study and performance. (If I'd said "I know something about music" and not mentioned my degree, it's likely someone would have asked "How is it that you think you know so much?")

I've been on web forums since the primitive beginnings in the late 80s and early 90s—and learned a long time ago the Number 1 Rule of the Web: You ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt. If you assume that everything you say might be misconstrued or interpreted in the worst possible way, everything you say would be useless (because it would be so butt-kissingly polite from fear of upsetting someone).

Anyway, I've listened to (and watched) SCV's show a total of 13 times now since yesterday (over 2 hours of focused listening and watching). And I guess in spite of my music degree I'm clearly deficient because it hasn't grown on me one bit. If I were listening to it in a vacuum—never having heard any other music in my life—it might be different. But in spite of everyone swooning over the ballad in the show, I can think of many, many other ballads I've heard (both from drum corps and elsewhere) that I think tower over this particular ballad from a musical perspective. I cannot evaluate any corps music in a vacuum without comparing it to every other work of music I've ever heard. If you think SCV's ballad was the most beautiful thing you've ever heard, I'm baffled. (Which is okay—it's okay to be baffled!)

I appreciate the good comments above about the drum corps audience, whether or not the activity will grow (and whether it should), and how teenagers in 10 or 20 years will like something completely different that ALL of us think is lousy, LOL. Good food for thought.

In closing, I'll say this: there's often an underlying assumption (both on the part of individuals and in society as a whole) that "evolution" always equates with "progress." In some areas it does—but this isn't always the case. Just because something is "current" or "new" or "the latest" doesn't always mean it's the "best" (however you define the words in quotes). It's entirely possible that things (particularly where subjective art is concerned) just go in circles or even regress and actually get worse over time. 

With drum corps, I think the overall level of ensemble performance has absolutely progressed—but I don't think the music has gotten any "better" over the past few decades. It's been twisted and chopped and spliced to fit the insatiable needs of a hyperactive drill and choreography.

In my opinion. :guinesssmilie:

Scott

PS - I'm still interested and somewhat amused that not one person in this huge thread has made a single comment about the musical merit (or lack thereof) of the examples i linked to in an earlier post (even from older SCV shows) of what I think are brilliant musical examples. It would be GREAT if someone would take any of those pieces and explain why (in your opinion, of course) what SCV performed this year was so much better?

 

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1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

ad hominem attack

Maybe someone can open a Fantasy Drum Corps thread where we can change shows around after the fact to generate fantasy GE. It would be a lot more fun than this thread.

Show Name - ad hominem attack - night of the living Dentists. We take SCV's attire and change the V to a D keep the masks and throw a light on their heads. The props are  Dental Chairs. Guard twirls large dentail tools. Large sets of false teeth at the corners that don't move all show. Borrow Crowns bones that looked more like teeth anyway. There you have it maybe I should get the design job instead of the OP!!!!  

Edited by Bluzes
typo
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16 minutes ago, SWriverstone said:

Anyway, I've listened to (and watched) SCV's show a total of 13 times now since yesterday (over 2 hours of focused listening and watching). And I guess in spite of my music degree I'm clearly deficient because it hasn't grown on me one bit. If I were listening to it in a vacuum—never having heard any other music in my life—it might be different. But in spite of everyone swooning over the ballad in the show, I can think of many, many other ballads I've heard (both from drum corps and elsewhere) that I think tower over this particular ballad from a musical perspective. I cannot evaluate any corps music in a vacuum without comparing it to every other work of music I've ever heard. If you think SCV's ballad was the most beautiful thing you've ever heard, I'm baffled. (Which is okay—it's okay to be baffled!)

I'm curious as to whether you are familiar with SCVs five musical selections in their original form. Was the source material good or bad, in your opinion? And was SCV faithful to it? And does that matter?

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42 minutes ago, SWriverstone said:

Original poster here. Look, I am truly sorry for sounding so condescending in my OP. As someone else pointed out, I was NOT attacking any person or any creative staff member individually. And yes—my OP was not tactful. I'm actually NOT a mean person. :biggrin:

My post admittedly came from a place of deep frustration at what—in my opinion (yes, it's an opinion)—is hearing the same kind of disjointed, jarring music coming from top corps for several years now. I was also frustrated because I keep hearing all sorts of talk about "innovation" (which is pretty wide-open term in itself), and yet from what I can see, not one corps seems to have the cojones to go out on the field and play one *fully intact* work of music (with zero cuts or edits and no park-and-blast power chords added). As others have said, my opinion is that the music has taken a backseat to the visuals—and as a musician, I hate this—and think it results in weaker shows. I know plenty don't agree–fine, don't agree.

For anyone who said I was trying to make my post about me and my degree, you clearly didn't read my OP. I don't give a flip about my degree—it's just what I got, and I only mentioned it to point out I spent a long time deeply immersed in musical study and performance. (If I'd said "I know something about music" and not mentioned my degree, it's likely someone would have asked "How is it that you think you know so much?")

I've been on web forums since the primitive beginnings in the late 80s and early 90s—and learned a long time ago the Number 1 Rule of the Web: You ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt. If you assume that everything you say might be misconstrued or interpreted in the worst possible way, everything you say would be useless (because it would be so butt-kissingly polite from fear of upsetting someone).

Anyway, I've listened to (and watched) SCV's show a total of 13 times now since yesterday (over 2 hours of focused listening and watching). And I guess in spite of my music degree I'm clearly deficient because it hasn't grown on me one bit. If I were listening to it in a vacuum—never having heard any other music in my life—it might be different. But in spite of everyone swooning over the ballad in the show, I can think of many, many other ballads I've heard (both from drum corps and elsewhere) that I think tower over this particular ballad from a musical perspective. I cannot evaluate any corps music in a vacuum without comparing it to every other work of music I've ever heard. If you think SCV's ballad was the most beautiful thing you've ever heard, I'm baffled. (Which is okay—it's okay to be baffled!)

I appreciate the good comments above about the drum corps audience, whether or not the activity will grow (and whether it should), and how teenagers in 10 or 20 years will like something completely different that ALL of us think is lousy, LOL. Good food for thought.

In closing, I'll say this: there's often an underlying assumption (both on the part of individuals and in society as a whole) that "evolution" always equates with "progress." In some areas it does—but this isn't always the case. Just because something is "current" or "new" or "the latest" doesn't always mean it's the "best" (however you define the words in quotes). It's entirely possible that things (particularly where subjective art is concerned) just go in circles or even regress and actually get worse over time. 

With drum corps, I think the overall level of ensemble performance has absolutely progressed—but I don't think the music has gotten any "better" over the past few decades. It's been twisted and chopped and spliced to fit the insatiable needs of a hyperactive drill and choreography.

In my opinion. :guinesssmilie:

Scott

PS - I'm still interested and somewhat amused that not one person in this huge thread has made a single comment about the musical merit (or lack thereof) of the examples i linked to in an earlier post (even from older SCV shows) of what I think are brilliant musical examples. It would be GREAT if someone would take any of those pieces and explain why (in your opinion, of course) what SCV performed this year was so much better?

 

I’m just going to answer your last question with this: I don’t recall anyone claiming SCVs music this year was better than Garfield 83 or the others you mentioned. That’s like asking people to define why Brahms Sym 4 is better than Holst’s Planets. They are both absolutely remarkable in their own right. 

I adore Garfield 83 and SCV 85. I also adore the more visually oriented shows from Cavies in the 2000’s. I loved Cadets 91 and Crossmen 92... I could go on and on. These are shows that stand on their own merits for me, and I don’t feel the need to size them up against other shows from other years.  

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1 hour ago, SWriverstone said:

Anyway, I've listened to (and watched) SCV's show a total of 13 times now since yesterday (over 2 hours of focused listening and watching). And I guess in spite of my music degree I'm clearly deficient because it hasn't grown on me one bit. If I were listening to it in a vacuum—never having heard any other music in my life—it might be different. But in spite of everyone swooning over the ballad in the show, I can think of many, many other ballads I've heard (both from drum corps and elsewhere) that I think tower over this particular ballad from a musical perspective. I cannot evaluate any corps music in a vacuum without comparing it to every other work of music I've ever heard. If you think SCV's ballad was the most beautiful thing you've ever heard, I'm baffled. (Which is okay—it's okay to be baffled!)

...

PS - I'm still interested and somewhat amused that not one person in this huge thread has made a single comment about the musical merit (or lack thereof) of the examples i linked to in an earlier post (even from older SCV shows) of what I think are brilliant musical examples. It would be GREAT if someone would take any of those pieces and explain why (in your opinion, of course) what SCV performed this year was so much better?

  

I appreciate the second post. Thank you for that.

Re: the bolded part, you're not deficient, you sound like a drum corps fan who just doesn't 'get' a show. A lot of us don't get some shows, and even some corps in general, and that's ok. Me liking one thing and you not liking that thing makes no difference, which is cool. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong, it just makes us us.

I will say, I have no knowledge of music outside of what I learned in school/drum corps and that's been well over a decade. I also have no interest in learning more, it's just not something I want to pursue. This summer I've been to one drum corps show live, three live jazz shows of varying quality, a few well known bands from the 80s and 90s, and far more drum corps shows on live stream than my wife would care to admit. I can tell you absolutely nothing about the hows and whys, but I can tell you I enjoyed them. And I enjoyed SCV a ton this year. I like the visual a lot, I liked the parts that gave me goosebumps, and honestly I liked the music, which I haven't stopped whistling for a few days now. If I was hard-pressed, I could probably figure out why I like those things, but at the end of the day, I'm not too interested in the why. I gravitate toward what I like, and that's good enough for me.

It sounds like you enjoy/appreciate the music side more, and probably have a different pallete for what that entails. For that reason, there's a real chance that you and I are going to have different enjoyments from drum corps. So, to round this out, I have absolutely no way of defending SCV's music or discussing much of the pieces you mentioned, because they're in your wheelhouse. But I can say that, for what I go to drum corps shows for, I enjoyed SCV, including the music, and that's enough for me.

Again, thank you for the second post.

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55 minutes ago, Bluzes said:

Maybe someone can open a Fantasy Drum Corps thread where we can change shows around after the fact to generate fantasy GE. It would be a lot more fun than this thread.

Show Name - ad hominem attack - night of the living Dentists. We take SCV's attire and change the V to a D keep the masks and throw a light on their heads. The props are  Dental Chairs. Guard twirls large dentail tools. Large sets of false teeth at the corners that don't move all show. Borrow Crowns bones that looked more like teeth anyway. There you have it maybe I should get the design job instead of the OP!!!!  

Rumor some say is that Dr. Cappy has already procured them and is marketing them in his office as "never used dentures."

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1 hour ago, SWriverstone said:

Original poster here. Look, I am truly sorry for sounding so condescending in my OP. As someone else pointed out, I was NOT attacking any person or any creative staff member individually. And yes—my OP was not tactful. I'm actually NOT a mean person. :biggrin:….

Keep trying, Scott....your body is a cage!

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