SWriverstone

SCV's show was an epic musical fail.

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The OP's selection of title for his post was the "hook" that grabbed everyone's attention. On that, he was wildly successful. I found value in his thoughts and some commonality. He did manage to release in readers a wide variety of opinions. Santa Clara's latest contribution was the essence of what art (including our kind) is expected to accomplish. . . have an impression upon others.

No need to take offense, or shout down one man's opinion. We've been given an opportunity to hear so many others !  

By the way, I enjoyed Blue Devils, Bluecoats, and Boston Crusaders performances even more so.

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57 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

I think "the audience" would be fine with that.  Mid-season changes are mostly for the benefit of the judges.

It depends on who you define the audience as being. There are a lot of casual fans, but there are many many more fans that are anything but casual. Look at the activity on this site alone, it tells us how loyal people are to this activity and how much they get out of the details. Evolving shows are very much a part of the fan experience now.It depends on who you define the audience as being. There are a lot of casual fans, but there are many many more fans that are anything but casual. Look at the activity on this site alone, it tells us how loyal people are to this activity and how much they get out of the details. Evolving shows are very much a part of the fan experience now.

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45 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

It depends on who you define the audience as being. There are a lot of casual fans, but there are many many more fans that are anything but casual. Look at the activity on this site alone, it tells us how loyal people are to this activity and how much they get out of the details. Evolving shows are very much a part of the fan experience now.It depends on who you define the audience as being. There are a lot of casual fans, but there are many many more fans that are anything but casual. Look at the activity on this site alone, it tells us how loyal people are to this activity and how much they get out of the details. Evolving shows are very much a part of the fan experience now.

Anything worth saying is worth saying twice. :sigh:

Seriously though, that's a fact. When I see a show early in the season I'm excited to see what they came up with. Later, I'm excited to see how it's grown and changed.

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9 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

It depends on who you define the audience as being. There are a lot of casual fans, but there are many many more fans that are anything but casual. Look at the activity on this site alone, it tells us how loyal people are to this activity and how much they get out of the details. Evolving shows are very much a part of the fan experience now.

I agree with most of what you say.  I just would not take it as far as you did in your previous post - "the audience cannot stick around for a show that is the same in week one as it is at the end".

Consider the 2018 SCV show.  It basked in fan love all season, based on aspects of their design and performance that were present throughout the season.  The show did not have (or need) any significant changes during the season, and did not wane in popularity on that account.  No one expressed despair over the Bottle Dance not being added for finals.

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1 hour ago, kkrepps said:

Anything worth saying is worth saying twice. :sigh:

Seriously though, that's a fact. When I see a show early in the season I'm excited to see what they came up with. Later, I'm excited to see how it's grown and changed.

 Not sure why that is happening. It’s sort of new in Siri dictation. I’ve only seen it happen with this message board. 

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

I agree with most of what you say.  I just would not take it as far as you did in your previous post - "the audience cannot stick around for a show that is the same in week one as it is at the end".

Consider the 2018 SCV show.  It basked in fan love all season, based on aspects of their design and performance that were present throughout the season.  The show did not have (or need) any significant changes during the season, and did not wane in popularity on that account.  No one expressed despair over the Bottle Dance not being added for finals.

I don’t think it’s hard and fast, but I think jagged line suffered from its inability to evolve. What they put on the field on day one pretty much was what was on the field in Indianapolis. It worked for down side up, because that concept was so unique. I’m not saying that your shell has to evolve but if it doesn’t, you run the risk of getting the ceiling two weeks before finals.

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

I agree with most of what you say.  I just would not take it as far as you did in your previous post - "the audience cannot stick around for a show that is the same in week one as it is at the end".

Consider the 2018 SCV show.  It basked in fan love all season, based on aspects of their design and performance that were present throughout the season.  The show did not have (or need) any significant changes during the season, and did not wane in popularity on that account.  No one expressed despair over the Bottle Dance not being added for finals.

When the Metropolis 1927 portion used as a closer felt like a victory lap the first time I heard it...you know the design staff did what they were paid to do.  In a summer of outstanding ballads including "If I Fell" and "Natural Woman," SCV comes out with "My Body is a Cage" and say hold my beer....dueling baritones, that snap, faces ripped off, trumpet duet, followed by a dog whistle release.  Now I am exaggerating a bit...but they could have walked off the field at that point and still placed in the medals, the design and execution was that good. 

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On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:42 AM, SWriverstone said:

There's a well-known and studied psychological phenomenon called the mere-exposure effect (also called the familiarity principle). It means people develop a preference for things merely because they are familiar with them. Put more simply, if you listen to lousy music long enough, you'll start thinking it's good. (This isn't opinion—it's fact.) 

SWriverstone -- This was your introductory statement in your initial posting.  If you will allow, I wish to bring forth an opinion.

I feel that I must disagree with this, based upon the final 5 words of the statement -- "...you'll start thinking it's good."  As you initially postulated, "It means people develop a preference for things merely because they are familiar with them."  Fair enough...I have no problem with this -- in fact, I would tend to agree.  Simple enough.  However, there still remains a large difference between liking something due to familiarity, and thereby also thinking it's good.  One is quantitative in nature (preference through familiarity); the other is qualitative (thinking it's good).  Please allow me to go off-topic for a moment, for the purpose of illustration...

As much as I hate to admit it, I am a smoker.  I smoke because of 1) the addictive nature of the nicotine; 2) the apparent relaxation it brings me in times of stress; 3) the simple effect of habit.  Such action on my part does not mean, however, that I am also convinced that it is "good."  It is not, and I know that.  It's unhealthy.  It's expensive.  It's unclean.  Despite all of that, I still smoke.  Maybe -- no, certainly -- all of this speaks more to my lack of will-power and sensibility than it does any inherent judgement on my part of its' detriments.

What does this have to do with one's personal judgement of the "goodness" (qualitative judgement) of a work of art?  Everything.  I can like a particularly dirty, obscene, morally indecent joke based upon...or despite...its' relation and/or adherence to societal standards.  I can also fully acknowledge that it is something which is not "fit" for common consumption to a segment of society.  I, too, am a musician, going into my 38th year of teaching in the field of Music Education.  As I stated on a simple post earlier in this thread, "I like what I like because I like it."  When I reach that point, I am not necessarily stating either as a teacher of music or a mere observer outside the field of education.  I am stating no opinion as to the relative quality of a given piece of music in an artistic sense.  It is much akin to when any of us laugh when we might be exposed to a particularly bad joke or pun.  Sometimes we laugh (possibly even "like" it) based on the lack of quality of it.  How often do we laugh, then follow our chuckle with "that's SOOOO bad!!"??

I know what I feel is "good" music...what I've been taught as being such.  And I know "bad" music...that is to say, what I've been taught to consider "bad" music as being.  But I also know that these qualitative judgements -- AND quantitative judgements -- are MINE, and designed as MINE alone.  And yes, sometimes I find myself listening to music because I like it...even music which I might not consider to be of "good" in quality.  There may simply be something about it which piques my attention -- even if the overall selection, taken as a whole, is something which I would place outside the "good" (qualitative) category.  Maybe it has a wonderful melody, but is dry harmonically.  I might find it lacking of value melodically and harmonically, yet I find a degree of intrigue in its' rhythmic underpinnings.  In terms of Drum Corps, maybe it might be Jim Brady solos in "Spanish Eyes" or "Pagliacci."  Maybe it's Barbara Maroney's concluding statement in "A Boy Like That."  Maybe it's Zengali's/Star of Indiana's "Cross-to-Cross."  Maybe it's the simple, brass-player's thrill to Madison's power and (excuse me) "balls forward" rendering of "Malaguena" in 1988.  And maybe it's nothing other than the Bluecoat soprano soloist's "wink" of a couple of years ago.  Those two seconds didn't get points.  They didn't get GE.  But as a brass player, I could both get and admire his internal affirmation of feeling "so THERE!!"...with an accompanying wry smile.  Whatever.  I can "like" it, yet also do so without any...ANY...consideration to anything other than a most simple...and most human..."WOW!!"

Yet...in the end...I "like" it.  And to be honest...that's all of which I care.  At that point, it is not up to me to educate.  Instead, it is merely up to me, as an individual member of the human species...by-and-large, one individual member of a very individual and imperfect human species...to determine of and for myself to "like."  And to enjoy.  

Quite honestly, Sir...that is something of which Julliard...or Eastman...or any Conservatory/School of Music cannot teach us, whether we have the great fortune to attend or not.  To ultimately determine what we "like."  In the end, as human beings both educated and musically-uneducated alike...we like what we like because we like it.

Edited by HornTeacher
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48 minutes ago, Sideways said:

When the Metropolis 1927 portion used as a closer felt like a victory lap the first time I heard it...you know the design staff did what they were paid to do.  In a summer of outstanding ballads including "If I Fell" and "Natural Woman," SCV comes out with "My Body is a Cage" and say hold my beer....dueling baritones, that snap, faces ripped off, trumpet duet, followed by a dog whistle release.  Now I am exaggerating a bit...but they could have walked off the field at that point and still placed in the medals, the design and execution was that good. 

After I read the OP last night and went to bed I was thinking more about this, probably should have slept instead. Did the show have a story? I don't think so, it was more of an emotion throughout and seemed to tap the subconscious more than shows that shows that play a ballad and have two people dancing and they make a heart, awww, they're in love, something bad happens, etc, etc, etc. Everything about the show was choreographed perfectly. I normally would have hated the Thriller dance, but in this context, it fit well and provided contrast for what happened before and what happens after. 2018 SCV will be a historic show that marks a point where DCI makes a slight turn in a different direction. Everything that happens after will have changed somewhat.

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7 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

 

Consider the 2018 SCV show.  It basked in fan love all season, based on aspects of their design and performance that were present throughout the season.  The show did not have (or need) any significant changes during the season, and did not wane in popularity on that account.  No one expressed despair over the Bottle Dance not being added for finals.

I discussed this with a lot of fans in Indy and most agreed with me.  I said SCV is always popular and after they beat BD a couple times I believe most of support was for seeing SCV get gold more and less about the actual show. To me SCV 2016 was vintage SCV and 2018 is really good but not 2016 (Design wise) 

Edited by Triple Forte
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