karuna Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, Slingerland said: He knew DCI was meeting with his staff to verify concerns related to member safety and general tour operations back in July. He was aware that they were keeping an eye on him from then through the end of their tour. He knew he was suspended from further DCI activities on August 16. The story broke August 23. Those are your answers. So you're suggesting that these problems at Pioneer began in July of 2018? Um...ok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said: why would he? it wasnt his job to answer those questions. it was his job to run the major shows, the tour, and the ancillary revenue streams. he was never intended to be THE guy. I can imagine if someone came to Dan with straight up hard documented proof, he'd have done something. Why? Because, well, look at the last 5 months. Sure, Stuart Rice called him on 2003 about Hop, but had no hard proof. What's he to do? Trust me, I firmly believe DCI needs to change a lot behind the scenes and have advocated for a board not run by the inmates for years. But I'm also realistic as to what Dan could or couldn't do without proof. You're just repeating "he didn't know anything and even if he did he couldn't do anything". So I'll just repeat: He could have been the prime whistle blower. He could have resigned in a very public protest of the corps director's unwillingness to confront all these issues. He was not powerless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 1 hour ago, karuna said: Did he act before the scrutiny in the press? How long have those issues at Pioneer existed? How long did he know they existed? Seems like it was pretty common knowledge. Yeah lots of tough questions to answer. yes if you follow the timeline, they started investigating the corps in July. Then when more came to light after finals, boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Just now, Jeff Ream said: yes if you follow the timeline, they started investigating the corps in July. Then when more came to light after finals, boom. And Pioneer's problems just started in 2018. Boom? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, karuna said: So you're suggesting that these problems at Pioneer began in July of 2018? Um...ok. Not at all. I'm laying out the factual timeline of the situation that led directly to Pioneer's suspension. If anyone had hard information that should have led to Pioneer being suspended prior to the season and failed to act on alerting DCI to their information, that would seem to make them complicit in allowing it go on. Edited August 24, 2018 by Slingerland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, karuna said: So you're suggesting that these problems at Pioneer began in July of 2018? Um...ok. yes actually, if you read Reddit and the various articles, it's well known when the issues at Pioneer were presented to DCI to look into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Just now, Jeff Ream said: yes actually, if you read Reddit and the various articles, it's well known when the issues at Pioneer were presented to DCI to look into. Actually you avoided answering the question. The question was: did all these problems at Pioneer just begin in 2018 or were there well-known problems at Pioneer far earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, karuna said: You're just repeating "he didn't know anything and even if he did he couldn't do anything". So I'll just repeat: He could have been the prime whistle blower. He could have resigned in a very public protest of the corps director's unwillingness to confront all these issues. He was not powerless. you cant go after someone without proof. there were rumors about Hop swirling before Christmas, but nothing documented. DCI instituted the whistle blower stuff in the spring. Boom, come July they are getting stuff from Pioneer. They investigated, met with Pio staff, and instituted a check in system for the remainder of the season. Then after finals, even more came to light, DCI dug in, and boom, suspended. Really man, it's been all laid out on DCP in various threads. Follow along. I'm not saying Dan is 100% blameless, but he's not 100% the sole issue. Hell the whistle blower reports go to someone else to investigate, then the findings are taken to Dan, as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Just now, Jeff Ream said: you cant go after someone without proof. there were rumors about Hop swirling before Christmas, but nothing documented. DCI instituted the whistle blower stuff in the spring. Boom, come July they are getting stuff from Pioneer. They investigated, met with Pio staff, and instituted a check in system for the remainder of the season. Then after finals, even more came to light, DCI dug in, and boom, suspended. Really man, it's been all laid out on DCP in various threads. Follow along. I'm not saying Dan is 100% blameless, but he's not 100% the sole issue. Hell the whistle blower reports go to someone else to investigate, then the findings are taken to Dan, as it should be. No one is suggesting he's the sole issue but he was certainly a significant part of the problem When you hear rumors about sexual misconductt and member mistreatment in drum corps, don't you have a duty to investigate them? And if the corps directors decide to just cover up and refuse to take action, don't you have an ethical duty to (A) resign (B) bring those problems to light in the press ? Sorry. He's as guilty as anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 1 minute ago, karuna said: No one is suggesting he's the sole issue but he was certainly a significant part of the problem When you hear rumors about sexual misconductt and member mistreatment in drum corps, don't you have a duty to investigate them? And if the corps directors decide to just cover up and refuse to take action, don't you have an ethical duty to (A) resign (B) bring those problems to light in the press ? Sorry. He's as guilty as anyone. what happened to c) report suspicions to the authorities for them to investigate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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