Putting it all in context

[MikeRapp]

16 hours ago, garfield said:

They are, via a system that measures "commitment" by their ability to meet DCI tour requirements, in total.

It sounds very much like you want placement scores to be the primary determinant of commitment.

 

Absolutely NOT the case. Quite the contrary. I wish that all World Class corps had the same share of revenues, but when Pioneer can be world class that isn’t realistic or fair:

[MikeRapp]

1 hour ago, HockeyDad said:

NFL has revenue sharing. The product delivered is far from uniform in quality 

Life isn’t fair. 

That said, we should at least attempt to make it fairer. Right now it seems revenue sharing isn’t fair enough. JMO

[Bluzes]

4 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

NFL has revenue sharing. The product delivered is far from uniform in quality 

Dci is more like baseball no revenue sharing, they have the yanks we have BD. The reason why Kansas City can win every 30 years with 32 teams in the league. They have a players draft with dci the kids decide where they want to be. 

[seen-it-all]

36 minutes ago, Bluzes said:

Dci is more like baseball no revenue sharing, they have the yanks we have BD. The reason why Kansas City can win every 30 years with 32 teams in the league. They have a players draft with dci the kids decide where they want to be. 

Major League Baseball actually does have a form of revenue sharing, by which (as I understand it) every team pays in 31% of their net local revenue and then that money is divided up and equally distributed. It's not nearly the same as the kind of revenue sharing in other professional leagues like the NFL, and they still don't have a salary cap (they have a "luxury tax" on teams spending over x amount of dollars on payroll every year), but it is something. And for the record, over the past 30 years, 25 different teams have battled for the World Series Championship and 17 different teams have won that title. That's a lot more parity than they're normally given credit for. 

It would be nice one day to look at the list of DCI champions and see something like 8 different champions in the next 12 years including several 1st-time winners, but I doubt those days are just around the corner anytime soon. Then again, comparing all this drum corps stuff to what professional sports leagues doesn't really make much sense since drum corps isn't a sport.

[Bluzes]

The history of drum corps depicted from musical lyrics. Very apparent to most I haven't learned too much from books. Music was my education, art only existed on album covers until I was ripped out of my safe space by this year's BD & Jubal. DCP shouldn't go down too often or this is what you get, everyone needs focus.

One of my favorite groups comes out of Madison and must know about drum corps.

Timbuk 3 - from their album - Greetings

1 Sunglasses - The futures so bright I gotta wear shades - dci just a few short years ago

2 Hard Times - Where we are today

3 Hair Styles & Attitudes - how we got here - The top 8 haircut has run it's course time to try a new Hair Style

Lived my whole live from song lyrics - it worked we are very happy. Still learning from Grateful Dead lyrics-don't go there

My anthem - US Bluzes although they spelled it correctly. About coming home from Nam.

It's 72, I'm still alive, ain't no luck, I learned to duck, steal your wife, run your life ect.. having the world in your hand. Their encore every time they played the Wash DC area.

On trips to see the Dead down in DC @ RFK stadium. No need for Lyft or Uber we rented a party bus met at the mall partied up & down the east coast. We knew Bill Clinton (not sure abt Hillery) Al & Tipper Gore would be up in their skybox (Huge Dead Heads) would get so high they would forget they inhaled. We would predict the setlist Dead had about 200 songs in their mix. But DC shows were special.

Throwing Stones - always awake always around doesn't have a name just yet, ashes ashes all fall down. (new dci director?)

I was blind all the time I been learning to see.

The heart has its seasons, its reasons and has a mind of its own.  Madison in 16th for the season, for no reasons, just don't have a mind of their own

The song Deal - It costs a lot to win and even more to lose. When you lose everything because you had to win. dci all over it

Sometimes the lights are all shining on me, other times I can barely see.

The song - Am I the victim or the crime - About rules that create Pioneers.

And my wife's favorite - We can share the women we can share the whine - Told her the dead are very bright and don't really mean wine.

And of course - What a long strange trip it's been - but better not be over still time to right the ship.

Please don't take this site down too much during the day. I am just sitting here faking it so my wife doesn't give me chores to do and DCP gets garbage like this. It's your own fault.

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bluzes
typo

[dcsnare93]

14 hours ago, seen-it-all said:

Major League Baseball actually does have a form of revenue sharing, by which (as I understand it) every team pays in 31% of their net local revenue and then that money is divided up and equally distributed. It's not nearly the same as the kind of revenue sharing in other professional leagues like the NFL, and they still don't have a salary cap (they have a "luxury tax" on teams spending over x amount of dollars on payroll every year), but it is something. And for the record, over the past 30 years, 25 different teams have battled for the World Series Championship and 17 different teams have won that title. That's a lot more parity than they're normally given credit for. 

It would be nice one day to look at the list of DCI champions and see something like 8 different champions in the next 12 years including several 1st-time winners, but I doubt those days are just around the corner anytime soon. Then again, comparing all this drum corps stuff to what professional sports leagues doesn't really make much sense since drum corps isn't a sport.

The MLB also shares a chunk of its central fund, which is made up of other revenue sources such as broadcasting contracts, except it's allocated disproportionately based on relative revenues. That is, the lower-revenue a team generates, a bigger piece of the pie they get. So there's winners and losers here as well. The more successful teams become significant payers in this model, subsidizing the smaller market teams as they become larger recipients.Though one could argue that without these smaller market teams, the big market teams would have fewer games, competitors and opportunities to make money.

Edited August 28, 2018 by dcsnare93

[mfrontz]

What in the name of all that is good and holy does competitive placement and whether or not a corps is world class or open class have anything to do with not covering up sexual abuse or having procedures in place to make sure that offenders don't get hired in the first place? 

Sheesh.

[cixelsyd]

Well, you said this in the OP:

Quote

Common among the situations, however, is that those who abuse depend upon the fact that they hold both short-term and long-term power over the ability of their victims to do the things they love, or to make a career; the abuser has a respected, charismatic, and often autocratic position and thus the victim is afraid not to be believed, and the victim is afraid that the institution they also love will suffer damage if they speak out. All three of these elements which create the conditions for abuse to happen are present in drum corps.

World class and competitive success are respected positions.  The corps who hold that status often have corps directors who can make a career out of their position.

[momrod2000]

On 8/24/2018 at 12:35 PM, Fred Windish said:

Certainly changes will be coming. It is necessary to further insulate the "brand" from damaging conduct that makes moving into the future more difficult. A few ideas:

3. Minimum age requirement to perform as a DCI corps set at 18. Maximum age 22. Everyone over the age of consent.

 

On 8/24/2018 at 12:51 PM, Ediker said:

Something like this is what would hurt the activity.  Age is not the problem.  Plenty of accusers were above the age of consent.  

 

On 8/24/2018 at 12:56 PM, Fred Windish said:

As to the age thing . . . . I'm thinking more about national touring groups who hold a DCI designation.  Surely, there will be groups throughout the nation with younger participants. Just seems too risky to embark on official DCI "6 week long camping trips" with underage youths.

 

On 8/24/2018 at 3:25 PM, gbass598 said:

3. This would essentially kill the Open Class activity and limit performance outlets. The Boy Scouts shouldn't eliminate minors because of a few bad scoutmasters, they just need to find a way to protect them. Participation should be encouraged, not restricted.

 

On 8/24/2018 at 3:46 PM, Tim K said:

The age of consent is a legal issue and has nothing to do with the matter. If you are staff, you do not have relationships with marching members. There are reasons why colleges have strict policies regarding these issues. I understand that drum corps with the touring model, people being so close, the bonds, etc. make it unique, and staff/intern/volunteer line is not always clear, but we’re talking about the well bring of the marching members and the survival of the activity.

 

On 8/24/2018 at 3:55 PM, Cappybara said:

Setting the minimum age to 18 seems like a weird form of victim blaming. 

Comes off as "abusers will be abusers, we should make sure any charges put on these abusers does not additionally include charges involving minors."

 

 

On 8/24/2018 at 4:25 PM, Liahona said:

I disagree. partial agreement

DCI is a YOUTH activity and has been known as JUNIOR drum and bugle corps for decades.  I would not be opposed though to TWO separate AGE CLASSES with the following age restrictions.

Age 14 to 17 (Open Class)

Age 18 to 21 (World Class)

Believe it or not, there were under 18's on the field during Final Retreat at the DCI World Championships this year.  What would you tell those marching members?  You're too young to do this? You can't compete at this level until you're older?  Grandfather them?

Cappybara made a valid statement.  It's not right to tell those younger members who are talented and dedicated enough to succeed at the top levels of this activity that they are part of the problem.  They have nothing to do with this problem.  The abusers and only the abusers are the problem.  Don't punish a potential victim for something that might happen thinking that will prevent it.  And honestly, it doesn't matter how old or young the victim is.  If an instructor is making advances toward a marching member, its wrong, whether the member is 17 or 21.

[BigW]

On 8/25/2018 at 11:44 AM, xandandl said:

No matter how they word it or plate it, no matter the price, no matter how they gussy up the menu or wine list, restaurants, hotels, and airlines get either one, two, three, four, five star ratings for attaining certain standards.................no matter what it costs the wallet for what they serve. Need we do this for drum corps too so that parents of new auditionees know what they are getting into?

You have a point. Even at work, friends have come up to me and asked what corps are okay for their son or daughter to go to. There were a couple I warned them on for certain reasons, some I felt would be a better fit for their child (more welcoming to younger members or less talented rookies for instance-maybe certain staff members would really relate to that individual well), some were unknowns where I told them they had to do some looking into and ask hard questions, or I'd have to poke around for them and ask people I knew.

 

I think here though, we're looking at providing some basic standards of what would be thought of as acceptable service?

 

-Kids get good nutrition, not stuff like the infamous 'cookie salad' one WC corps got in the late 70's early 80's. Don't need filet wrapped in bacon served by a Brazilian cowboy, I know this can be done for not a ton of money by someone who plans, thinks things through and has the knowledge

 

-Buses are structurally and mechanically solid, can pass  the yearly PA state inspection for instance...

 

-Staff passes at least the equivalent of PA Act 151 (A rather detailed Child Abuse check)... Staff also knows how to behave and conduct themselves as professionals, (I could care less about any 'formal' education, just act right!) and if they don't, management either straightens out and develops the staff member or shows them the boot

 

-Corps has certain things clearly spelled out in the contract what the member can expect from the corps as well as what the corps can expect from them...

 

I'm prolly missing quite  a few things. Is it a start? Go from there, help me out.