2018 Drum Corps Associates Preliminary Competition - Williamsport, Pennsylvania

[cixelsyd]

8 hours ago, kevingamin said:

Worse - I said the S word. I can't even post it because it will trigger the security flag.

We all need to be careful with our language these days.  But you can still use the word "soprano" in the alumni forum.

[JimF-LowBari]

9 hours ago, kevingamin said:

Worse - I said the S word. I can't even post it because it will trigger the security flag.

Glad I self censor and just use the pound  sign... oops hash tag for my naughty bits (Monty Python reference)

[BigW]

On 9/3/2018 at 12:49 AM, N.E. Brigand said:

Did you ever post something just before going to bed, then wake up in the middle of the night with regrets and decide to delete it, but the wireless was out so you couldn't?

Maybe that means the post was meant to stay up, so I won't delete it now, but I will note that I attempted to buy a souvenir from both corps in questions (but one of them had closed down its booth by the time I stopped by). I hope that covers my karmic tush.

I think it's a teachable moment. I'll swoop in and cover.

 

I thought hard about all of this. One thing that came to mind was that for every quality 30 and under playing member high school band out there, there are a lot more that can't deliver that possibly could if they thoughtfully developed their program and design. Heck, there are some huge bands out there that are big and sloppy, and... not real fun to watch. For decades... I've ran into a perception from Joe Hotdogonnabun that the bigger units at HS shows are better, more exciting, and more wonderful. In many cases, nope. Nope, nope, nope.

 

There have always been some 'tough' in quotes corps out there in both DCI and DCA, and I'm certain of that back in the days of the VFW and AL. It wasn't all Argonne, Casper, Blessed Sac, Cabs, Sky and Reilly on the field. Scores would bear that out- it wasn't unusual for corps to 'zero out' on the execution captions, basically run out of ticks because they were that sloppy. Corps scoring in the 30, 20's, even teens. I rem,ember the hullabaloo in the late seventies early 80's when a small west coast corps pulled I think a 10 or 13 at a DCI show.

 

That being said, ya gotta start somewhere. The question is, where do you go from the start?

 

Case study: I'll pick my corps to pick on. That way if I mention anyone else, they know I've busted on my own team first, and a lot harder.

 

Back to August 17, 1974. The Westshoremen score a then (note THEN, it was broken later...) DCA record low 37.25 at a contest and then pulled off a dead last, 15th place 41 at Prelims. They were behind by 6 points to 14th place. The corps was a pretty big har-har-har to many in the DCA community then. A serious joke and laughing stock. Knowing what we know now... I bet you could have made some serious money if you placed a bet with someone that within 8 years, the Westshoremen would place top 3 at Finals and go undefeated for the first half of the season? Think about it.

 

Jim will also tell you- management had a plan in place to get the corps moving up. Better infrastructure, stronger business plan, better staff, better design, recruit heavily from the hotbed of competitive HS programs that were just beginning to cook in the region and further develop the talents of those goofy kids... add to that getting lucky that the Yankee-Rebels imploded and we got a fair amount of confident and knowledgeable vets as refugees? When I was recruited, I was told there was a plan. Everyone in the corps understood this, and that it was a long term plan. Place better every year, get better, grow with the corps.

 

Another case study: White Sabres and Cincinnati Tradition. A few years ago, they were better than early Westshore by far, but they were both lagging at the bottom of Class A. People had a plan at both places. They busted hard to institute it. (Tip of the hat to fellow Westshore alum Hair Bear at CT who realized pretty daggone fast if Westshore could do it, why not CT!?) Much the same model of how to take a corps and make it awesome. Look where both are now! Both putting out strong shows and cranking it up.

 

I'm certain from observation and conversation that a couple of corps in question have a thoughtful long range plan in place as well. If they can follow the models that are out there- find the right people, develop stronger programming as the members grow, keep the members on board to develop their talents...We'll see something great from them down the road. Something the members who performed this season will take great pride in the fact they helped get it there from ground zero.

 

My advice to those corps members and staff/admins- hang in there, stick together, grow together, fight together, build the corps infrastructure carefully- it may take a few years before that success happens... but the fruit is VERY tasty when it gets ripe.

[Jeff Ream]

Outside of the Govies, who year in and year out design for what they have the key is....designing for what you have.

 

5 years ago, and I dont remember the corps, you had someone out there with like 12 horns playing Fire of Eternal Glory, Firebird stuff like that....but designed like it was written for 50 horns. You're not gonna get a 9 in demand and 5 in performance if it's not happening. That same year another corps had 38 total bodies, and were spread across the field like they had 128. Again.....gave the corps no chance for success. 

 

This year, there were some examples of trying more than the corps was ready for, but the issues were far smaller in scope than 5 years ago. I get it...you want to hold out hope more bodies will show up in May. But if it doesn't, don't be afraid to tweak it. I get that shows viewed as safe or boring can drive people away. You have to state upfront you're designing like that now in order to not get killed.....because bad design leading to bad scores can chase people away  that were there.

[Terri Schehr]

47 minutes ago, BigW said:

 

Another case study: White Sabres and Cincinnati Tradition. A few years ago, they were better than early Westshore by far, but they were both lagging at the bottom of Class A. People had a plan at both places. They busted hard to institute it. (Tip of the hat to fellow Westshore alum Hair Bear at CT who realized pretty daggone fast if Westshore could do it, why not CT!?) Much the same model of how to take a corps and make it awesome. Look where both are now! Both putting out strong shows and cranking it up.

 

 

Nick Angelis and a host of other staff members deserve a great deal of credit for Cincinnati Tradition’s success.  Not to mention, the fantastic members who believed and never gave up. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Terri Schehr

[JimF-LowBari]

And to reply to Ws history lesson (or memory lane to me). We came in 15th at Prelims out of 15 corps. Next year we improved to 15 out of  19. No Class A then so there we were with top DCA corps and just getting buried. Didn’t beat a corps for a while year (37.25 week before 74 DCA and beat 2 corps week before 75 DCA).

What kept us together imo was staff (Hershman er al) kept it real. Still remember “right we’re going to lose to the other corps because we are not as experienced as them YET. Only corps you worry about is beating our score from the last show”. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by JimF-LowBari

[Fran Haring]

3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Outside of the Govies, who year in and year out design for what they have the key is....designing for what you have.

5 years ago, and I dont remember the corps, you had someone out there with like 12 horns playing Fire of Eternal Glory, Firebird stuff like that....but designed like it was written for 50 horns. You're not gonna get a 9 in demand and 5 in performance if it's not happening. That same year another corps had 38 total bodies, and were spread across the field like they had 128. Again.....gave the corps no chance for success. 

This year, there were some examples of trying more than the corps was ready for, but the issues were far smaller in scope than 5 years ago.

Oh man... I remember those days, with small corps trying to be the current-day Buccaneers, or worse yet, the Blue Devils or SCV.  Not happening. LOL.  Sometimes disastrous.

Only saw two or three DCA Class A corps this summer at various times... the one that stood out, for me, was the Skyliners.  A design that fit what the corps had.

Govies have been a master of smart design for years now. I've compared them to the Mandarins when they were a DCI Div. 3 powerhouse, fielding 10 horns and smoking corps more than twice their size.

And White Sabers, in their last few DCA Class A years, apparently read the Govies' "how to get it done" manual,  copied it while keeping their own style, and thrived.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Fran Haring

[hairbear]

I rarely post here anymore and am surprised to hear my name mentioned. (well, my nickname) Big W, don't assume that I have (or had) so much influence and input in C.T.'s success. While it's true that I performed a particular task, that task was accomplished several seasons ago. If any accolades are due, they should rightfully go to Nick Angelis and his team. This is an entirely revamped organization, well managed and taught by a stellar staff. My current duties within this framework are as follows:

Paint stuff.

fix stuff.

deliver stuff.

pick up stuff.

If I'm not doing that, I can usually be found sitting on the sidelines, where I belong.   :)

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by hairbear

[N.E. Brigand]

2 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

Nick Angelis and a host of other staff members deserve a great deal of credit for Cincinnati Tradition’s success.  Not to mention, the fantastic members who believed and never gave up. 

For the past several years, I've been keeping a ranked list (as I see them) of Ohio's competitive field marching bands: approximately 225 high school groups and two drum corps. It's been pretty cool each year to watch CT move up. When I started, I put them at about 35th. Now I have them in 2nd.

[N.E. Brigand]

3 hours ago, BigW said:

I think it's a teachable moment. I'll swoop in and cover. [...]

My advice to those corps members and staff/admins- hang in there, stick together, grow together, fight together, build the corps infrastructure carefully- it may take a few years before that success happens... but the fruit is VERY tasty when it gets ripe.

Thanks (to you and Jeff) for making lemonade from my lemons!