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7 hours ago, dhawtho1 said:

Jeff.  I respect you and I value your opinions.  You are a percussionist fighting for your section.  I understand

 

1.  The cymbals are no more specialized than and other instrument.  Sorry.  They did not enter school saying I want to be a cymbal player.  Trumpet, Fhorn,  Euph, Tuba are all specialized.  They require years of training to play that one horn. Ask a Euphonium player what ir is like to hold their arms up in playing position all day.  They would beg for a pair of cymbals.  Im sure if playing cymbals is that important then they might have to look elsewhere if admin doesnt want to change.  

 

2.  The visuals provided by cymbals may be interesting and complex, most were not designed to depict the show.  More to highlight technical prowess.  Is it any different than snare players and their stick visuals.  Nice to look at, but does it REALLY make show better.  Certainly not musically.  If a horn player tossed his horn in the air, caught it 5 yards away and continued to play, might be interesting to watch.  Not musical and has nothing to do with show.

 

3.  The caption head has a right to explore his way onto the scene.  As an educator I am keenly aware as of late the way things are changing.  If you spent 1 day in a classroom today you will notice that things are evolving drastically each yea and day by day.  You wont notice it teaching a band or judging.  You have to be in the trenches.  You I believe called me closed minded the other day or at least to that generality.  Im more open minded today than I was 20 years ago.  I have to be.  If you were in education you would understand.

 

4.  I am a Crossmen Alumni.  I enjoyed my time.  The corps is much different that 31 years ago.  Their traditions have changed as well.  The day they get rid of the aussie hat is the day the corps has lost their identity.  The year they went to the shako during school for scandal year didnt last long.  Yes, they used them before.  Most corps today look nothing like they did.  They wear costumes that depict an idea or thought, not a tradition.  Thise days are probably gone

it's not about tradition to me. it's that kids devoted to a certain instrument are running out of places to go. And it's an instrument that can offer a lot more than sitting on a stand and being whacked with a mallet or stick. 

I'll ignore your unfounded musical comments. If you actually understood the section, you wouldn't have said what you said. And I'm married to a music teacher, so I'm well aware how the job has changed in the 18 years together. But when it comes to marching cymbals, yes you are closed minded.

 

So feel glad it's evolved, taking kids devoted to an instrument and giving them fewer homes to go to. As an educator, that shouldn't appeal to you in the slightest, because in the classrom, it's all about inclusiveness

 

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3 hours ago, MotoSurfBass said:

As a lifelong marching bass drummer who picked up a baritone for one marching season in college, and then picked up a euphonium five years later for an A Class corps, it's not THAT bad. 

The other problem with this statement that "they might have to look elsewhere" becomes a lot tougher when the number of opportunities shrinks with each passing year.

well remember, to many, being a bass or tenor player is cause you couldn't hack the snare line...which couldn't be any more misinformed

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8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

well remember, to many, being a bass or tenor player is cause you couldn't hack the snare line...which couldn't be any more misinformed

Exactly. I played bass in corps because I played bass in high school. And I played bass in high school since day one of freshman year when the caption head looked at me and said, "you're tall, pick up that biggest drum."

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2 hours ago, MotoSurfBass said:

Exactly. I played bass in corps because I played bass in high school. And I played bass in high school since day one of freshman year when the caption head looked at me and said, "you're tall, pick up that biggest drum."

I once had a girl who was 5 feet tall in pumps insist she could handle a 30. She was crazy enough she probably could have, but she could play rolls like a goddess do I used that to talk her into being top bass 

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As a Crossmen alum and band director in Texas, I would absolutely do the same thing if put in the position to make the call to cut the cymbal line.  Cymbal lines don't provide any real value for the amount of investment involved for a drum corps show.  The amount of time and effort composing their music, instructing, cleaning, paying a staff... all for something that will receive little to no credit in the grand scheme of the show doesn't make sense.  Don't get me wrong, cymbals have a place in parades, in the stands at football games, and indoor drumline but they're unnecessary in DCI.  

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4 hours ago, L1STEN2311 said:

.  Cymbal lines don't provide any real value for the amount of investment involved for a drum corps show.    

 One could say the same thing however for about half the large props utilized in today's Drum Corps shows. Some props work well of course, but lets face it, about half or more of them don't really do much to advance anything at all in Music, nor for the Corps, nor for fans. And 4 music cymbals cost a heck of a lot less than these large props we see carted  onto and out of the field at each show. So if you are this concerned about Return Values on Investment , how do you feel about all these large and expensive, non musical, props being built and purchased for Drum Corps/ MB  competition shows these days now ?

Edited by BRASSO
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4 hours ago, L1STEN2311 said:

As a Crossmen alum and band director in Texas, I would absolutely do the same thing if put in the position to make the call to cut the cymbal line.  Cymbal lines don't provide any real value for the amount of investment involved for a drum corps show.  The amount of time and effort composing their music, instructing, cleaning, paying a staff... all for something that will receive little to no credit in the grand scheme of the show doesn't make sense.  Don't get me wrong, cymbals have a place in parades, in the stands at football games, and indoor drumline but they're unnecessary in DCI.  

how educationally sound of you.

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Please elaborate on the educational value of playing in a cymbal line vs any other position in an ensemble.  

if education is your concern, why not field flub lines instead.  My main reason for not having cymbals in my program is that I don’t want my students not drumming for 5 months.  They’ll be better prepared for concert season (or the next marching season) playing a keyboard instrument or a flub drum vs cymbals.

I was told in high school that marching drum corps was a waste of time and that I “would never make a dime playing a drum on a football field”. Marching drum corps changed my life for the better and it’s an experience I wish for anyone who wants to achieve it.  But from the administrative side, I understand the cost vs. value of cymbals. It’s always hard to take away an opportunity for students to perform, but those 4/5 spots will go to other students who will now get to march.  

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7 hours ago, L1STEN2311 said:

 but those 4/5 spots will go to other students who will now get to march.  

I also see no value with marching cymbals in the competitive arena, but to be fair, what do the students who had those "4/5 spots" do now?  Take a crash course on another instrument?

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It's somewhat disappointing to me that the corps decided to drop the cymbal line because a flash in the pan caption head wants it that way. I'll just wait till the next one comes along and reinstates it. It shouldn't be long.

I'm not sure why Lane has such a difficult time with orchestration and education of a cymbal line. I think it's probably a bad decision to hire a guy who says things like this, [emphasis mine] "The bottom line is I have a clear vision of what I want my percussion section to be..." Doesn't sound like someone who cares about the history of the corps or is a much of a team player.

I hear they are fundraising for a new box truck though...

Edited by jbeatty89

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