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53 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

Not that I ever said otherwise.

But since you brought that up, a little clarification would be nice.  It is not "the corps", but really just the designers/instructors (and judges) who develop the judging system, with corps voting representatives having veto power.  The rest of the people who make up "the corps" (most notably, the marching members) have no input.

i've yet to hear of anyone advocating that cymbals be cut from the judging side.

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 Cymbals are an integral instrumentation component of most Orchestra's and Symphonies world wide.  As most know here, almost all the great Classical Composers over the centuries utilize the Cymbal to one degree or another in their Music Compositions.

 But its true, if the Corps do not want to use the cymbal even in the FE for their musical interpretation of a music piece, there is nothing that requires that they need to stay true to the original composer's intent with the use of the cymbal.

 Personally, I love watching the few remaining Corps such as SCV utilize the cymbal in their shows in their field drill. Its awesome the way they utilize them in such a clever, and showmanship manner and not just in the FE, imo.

Edited by BRASSO

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

Not that I ever said otherwise.

But since you brought that up, a little clarification would be nice.  It is not "the corps", but really just the designers/instructors (and judges) who develop the judging system, with corps voting representatives having veto power.  The rest of the people who make up "the corps" (most notably, the marching members) have no input.

Actually, you did say otherwise in a way, as I interpreted what you wrote.

"Apparently, judges value "intellectual effect" and "3-dimensional design" so much that corps are adding yet another truck to the fleet just to transport all the associated props on tour.  If the DCI judging system valued cymbal lines, every corps would have one."

Tome you implied that the judges desires trigger what the corps do, when it is the corps who determine what the judges do.

As for clarification, yes it is "the corps" who determine the rules.  Those whose job it is within the corps to make the decisions perform those duties. Marching members are not part of the corps administration/instructional staff, so no, they do not make the rules. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Cymbals are an integral instrumentation component of most Orchestra's and Symphonies world wide.  As most know here, almost all the great Classical Composers over the centuries utilize the Cymbal to one degree or another in their Music Compositions.

 But its true, if the Corps do not want to use the cymbal even in the FE for their musical interpretation of a music piece, there is nothing that requires that they need to stay true to the original composer's intent with the use of the cymbal.

 Personally, I love watching the few remaining Corps such as SCV utilize the cymbal in their shows in their field drill. Its awesome the way they utilize them in such a clever, and showmanship manner and not just in the FE, imo.

Which front ensembles do not use cymbals? 

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13 minutes ago, MikeD said:

Which front ensembles do not use cymbals? 

 I believe all of the Corps have FE with cymbals. MikeD.  But few Corps still utilize the cymbals with marching members on the field. Increasingly, more and more Corps are dropping the use of the cymbals with marching members in their show. Ironically, there is no " follow the leader " here with this trend, as DCI's current Champion still finds it useful ( and undeniably a winning formula for themselves ) to utilize the marching cymbal section in their quest to win a DCI Title.

 

Edited by BRASSO

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14 minutes ago, MikeD said:

Which front ensembles do not use cymbals? 

I give Brasso a +2 for looking ahead into his crystal ball and noticing that most synths and electric pianos have cymbal crashes and other nuances easily programmed into their electronic "music."  What is and what will soon be are not too far apart.

 

Of course, all this may just be a marketing ploy to shake-down Zildjian, Sabian, and Paiste for larger donations for DCI, BOA, and wherever the designers want to put their imprint, not the mms.

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22 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 I believe all of the Corps have FE with cymbals. MikeD.  But few Corps still utilize the cymbals with marching members on the field. Increasingly, more and more Corps are dropping the use of the cymbals with marching members in their show. Ironically, there is no " follow the leader " here with this trend, as DCI's current Champion still finds it useful ( and undeniably a winning formula for themselves ) to utilize the marching cymbal section in their quest to win a DCI Title.

 

I was reacting to this statement...

"But its true, if the Corps do not want to use the cymbal even in the FE for their musical interpretation of a music piece..."

However, in general  yes, corps have dropped the marching cymbal sections in most cases. SCV remains, one who has not, of course. Corps have also dropped marching timpani and marching mallets (outside of a special use) in favor of the FE. Times change. Maybe some will add them back, and maybe not.

 

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2 hours ago, MikeD said:

Corps have also dropped marching timpani and marching mallets (outside of a special use) in favor of the FE. 

Besides being hard on the back, the larger marching percussion instruments you mention here would not allow their performers to contribute visually to the extent that a cymbal line can.

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3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

i've yet to hear of anyone advocating that cymbals be cut from the judging side.

On the other hand, is the absence of a cymbal line treated the same way as the absence of any other percussion section?  For instance, a corps with no marching snares?

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2 hours ago, MikeD said:

However, in general  yes, corps have dropped the marching cymbal sections in most cases. SCV remains, one who has not, of course. Corps have also dropped marching timpani and marching mallets (outside of a special use) in favor of the FE. Times change. Maybe some will add them back, and maybe not.

 

True... but what this lead to was more opportunities for percussionist in general as the eight members (4 timp and 4 keys) became a front ensemble with 6, 8, 10 , 14 and now in some instances 18 members sections. This did not eliminate the voice or section... just repositioned it with better instruments. The elimination of the cymbal section eliminates an entire voice. Disappointing since it can be very effectively used by SCV and until 2019 the Crossmen.  

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