Pioneer News From the Top – September 8th

[Brian Tuma]

I remember Pio turning over unpayed dues to a collection agency a few years back. You would think they had learned their lesson. Durrrrr

Edited September 11, 2018 by Brian Tuma

[garfield]

9 hours ago, Brian Tuma said:

I remember Pio turning over unpayed dues to a collection agency a few years back. You would think they had learned their lesson. Durrrrr

Or, hold firm to your principles and presume that an agreement will be met on both sides and, as in real life, actions have consequences.

I hope that's still an acceptable lesson to teach young people...

 

 

[E3D]

13 minutes ago, garfield said:

Or, hold firm to your principles and presume that an agreement will be met on both sides and, as in real life, actions have consequences.

I hope that's still an acceptable lesson to teach young people...

 

 

Yes the life lesson of making a commitment and honoring that should be happening in life today for sure. 

I'm such a Dino - and it will show once I write this post. The first time I read about these kids signing contracts was on the reddit thread about blue stars alternate member being abused. 

So my first thought is - Does the kid sign the contract or are the parents signing a contract? What about international members from say - Japan where English is a second language for them, do they sign a contract also? I would think that a young person say 16 or 17 signing a contract is a bit suspect. 

What happens if the corps does not provide the basics - food and safety. If that member has already paid all the dues / fees then I doubt the corps is going to provide any refund. But yet the member who might not have paid all of the fees , may feel like they do not need to do so considering the conditions. 

[cixelsyd]

13 hours ago, Tim K said:

I realize that Legends, River City Rhythm, and Louisiana Stars are OC, but Pioneer claimed it was all about experience and improvement which these three corps can provide.

Indeed.  All three are a competitive step up from Pioneer at present.

[mjoakes]

Is this request for volunteers to help with reorganization coming from the current leadership? The page on the Pioneer site doesn't have a new leadership/interim board feel to it.

[garfield]

8 minutes ago, E3D said:

Yes the life lesson of making a commitment and honoring that should be happening in life today for sure. 

I'm such a Dino - and it will show once I write this post. The first time I read about these kids signing contracts was on the reddit thread about blue stars alternate member being abused. 

So my first thought is - Does the kid sign the contract or are the parents signing a contract? What about international members from say - Japan where English is a second language for them, do they sign a contract also? I would think that a young person say 16 or 17 signing a contract is a bit suspect. 

What happens if the corps does not provide the basics - food and safety. If that member has already paid all the dues / fees then I doubt the corps is going to provide any refund. But yet the member who might not have paid all of the fees , may feel like they do not need to do so considering the conditions. 

The official legal contract is, of course, with the adult signing the kid over, and I'd bet that the collection agency went after the parents and not the kid.  Parents of band kids are usually strong and responsible.

That said, I'd personally think twice considering the "basic" provisions were barely, or not, provided about sending in outstanding dues.  The honorable thing to do is pay the bill, a bill is a bill unless and until the org ceases to exist.  At the very least, escrow the fees at a local bank and agree to pay when the leadership changes (or contentions are heard, or credit is given, or whatever is holding up payment).  A little good will would also go a long way towards providing a base to a new management, if one is found.

But I certainly understand the "Screw it, the kid got hosed" mentality that might prompt some to walk away from it.

[cixelsyd]

13 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Ok what is the deal with the LER bus? Not a reddit member and goggle not taking me there. I get Pioneer borrowed a bus because one of theirs crapped out but nothing blaming LER.

A Pioneer marcher posted on reddit nearly four weeks ago, impugning the legality and safety of the LER bus.  That same poster issued an apology on reddit last night (excerpt follows):

"I had mentioned that the bus' license plate registration stickers had expired. Well I later found out that Pennsylvania had stopped the renewal stickers. Therefore meaning that the plate would appear to seem expired if you didn't know about the new law Pennsylvania passed. I also said that their USDOT registration seems to no longer be active. Well, after looking into what qualifications the USDOT has set for whether or not an owner operator needs a USDOT number. It appears that the bus never gets driven out of state. So therefore the owner operator does not need a USDOT number. Which means that while operated by Lake Erie Fanfare, it is a completely legal vehicle for where they operate. And since Pioneer became the operator of the vehicle, it was completely legal to operate outside of the state since Pioneer has a valid USDOT number."

[garfield]

1 hour ago, E3D said:

Yes the life lesson of making a commitment and honoring that should be happening in life today for sure. 

I'm such a Dino - and it will show once I write this post. The first time I read about these kids signing contracts was on the reddit thread about blue stars alternate member being abused. 

So my first thought is - Does the kid sign the contract or are the parents signing a contract? What about international members from say - Japan where English is a second language for them, do they sign a contract also? I would think that a young person say 16 or 17 signing a contract is a bit suspect. 

What happens if the corps does not provide the basics - food and safety. If that member has already paid all the dues / fees then I doubt the corps is going to provide any refund. But yet the member who might not have paid all of the fees , may feel like they do not need to do so considering the conditions. 

I think, here, the issue would land squarely on DCI's shoulders, as it is up to them to assure that each corps on the tour can provide the basics to run a drum corps down the road.  The OC is the same, or maybe more, scrutinized to meet minimums of care before they can leave.  

I'm no lawyer but, if the complaintant's contention has merit, no good lawyer is going to go after Pio or the Blenski's (EDIT: go after them alone, especially if and because there's liability insurance to go after when the org is sued) if DCI has a responsibility for assuring those two things are among "basics" provided to the entire circus as it rolls down the road.  And DCI might also say that the review process approved by the BoD was completed exactly as is required for a WC corps.  If the process and procedure is lacking, the finger is pointed, correctly, at DCI's BoD.

And, although this might be a stretch, if all of that P&P is "written" or "implemented" in tilted-favor of the WC corps, it brings to light another, significant, example of why the BoD structure might be better off under control of decision-makers who don't speak for or favor any one corps.

In today's drum corps, it's just not reasonable to expect that the foxes are the best ones to write the rules governing the hen house.  

 

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by garfield

[garfield]

4 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

A Pioneer marcher posted on reddit nearly four weeks ago, impugning the legality and safety of the LER bus.  That same poster issued an apology on reddit last night (excerpt follows):

"I had mentioned that the bus' license plate registration stickers had expired. Well I later found out that Pennsylvania had stopped the renewal stickers. Therefore meaning that the plate would appear to seem expired if you didn't know about the new law Pennsylvania passed. I also said that their USDOT registration seems to no longer be active. Well, after looking into what qualifications the USDOT has set for whether or not an owner operator needs a USDOT number. It appears that the bus never gets driven out of state. So therefore the owner operator does not need a USDOT number. Which means that while operated by Lake Erie Fanfare, it is a completely legal vehicle for where they operate. And since Pioneer became the operator of the vehicle, it was completely legal to operate outside of the state since Pioneer has a valid USDOT number."

I'm afraid this may be analog for a considerable amount of angst in the entire Pio saga.

BITD, when all corps were run like Pio, it was hip.  But, in today's world of $1mm budgets, the activity has left Pio in the dust and some of the membership is voicing their disagreement with sufficient voice that Pio is being forced to get off the tracks; they can be Wiley Coyote staring down the tunnel for so long before they figure out it really IS a freight train.

DCI is also forced, now due to public pressure, to make uncomfortable decisions for the best of the activity which, it appears, it was not willing to do prior. 

[cixelsyd]

12 hours ago, BigW said:

This strikes me as rather different than YEA in that it seemed DCI had a short list of incredibly able and great people ready to dive in immediately in that circumstance. Could be DCI is having trouble finding people willing...or on the other side, they're not as willing to accept who DCI wants in... or maybe those DCI would like to help want certain guarantees? It just strikes me as odd.

DCI was quick, generous and hardworking in assisting Cadets when their director/BOD turned over in April.  Of course, the goal was to get the Cadets on the road 2 months later, whereas with Pioneer the goal is to field in 22 months.  To be fair, DCI should provide just as much assistance to Pioneer as they did to Cadets... but it can be spread out over time.

Also, DCI assistance is one thing.  But ultimately, the corps has to come up with their own people.  DCI does not assign their own employees to a corps BOD or directorship (although a recent DCI survey asks if they should consider that in the future).  YEA! had four people step up fairly quickly as replacements for the former BOD, and from there they could make their own hiring decisions for corps admins and staff as needed during the eventful run-up to the 2018 season.  For Pioneer to return, they will have to assemble a new BOD... but it may not happen overnight.