Pioneer News From the Top – September 8th

[BigW]

14 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

A Pioneer marcher posted on reddit nearly four weeks ago, impugning the legality and safety of the LER bus.  That same poster issued an apology on reddit last night (excerpt follows):

"I had mentioned that the bus' license plate registration stickers had expired. Well I later found out that Pennsylvania had stopped the renewal stickers. Therefore meaning that the plate would appear to seem expired if you didn't know about the new law Pennsylvania passed. I also said that their USDOT registration seems to no longer be active. Well, after looking into what qualifications the USDOT has set for whether or not an owner operator needs a USDOT number. It appears that the bus never gets driven out of state. So therefore the owner operator does not need a USDOT number. Which means that while operated by Lake Erie Fanfare, it is a completely legal vehicle for where they operate. And since Pioneer became the operator of the vehicle, it was completely legal to operate outside of the state since Pioneer has a valid USDOT number."

I'd previously mentioned that vehicle registration stickers were done away with in PA, but... the real trick is the inspection stickers on the windshields. I'm assuming the bus had passed a PA state inspection within the past 12 months- this was never confirmed by anyone. If you have an out of date sticker in PA, it's a very dicey thing to do. If you're smart, you don't play that game.

 

I really can't blame the MM for going there, and appreciated their clarification. Given how things were spinning out of control and going pear-shaped at that point, why not that as well?

[JimF-LowBari]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

A Pioneer marcher posted on reddit nearly four weeks ago, impugning the legality and safety of the LER bus.  That same poster issued an apology on reddit last night (excerpt follows):

"I had mentioned that the bus' license plate registration stickers had expired. Well I later found out that Pennsylvania had stopped the renewal stickers. Therefore meaning that the plate would appear to seem expired if you didn't know about the new law Pennsylvania passed. I also said that their USDOT registration seems to no longer be active. Well, after looking into what qualifications the USDOT has set for whether or not an owner operator needs a USDOT number. It appears that the bus never gets driven out of state. So therefore the owner operator does not need a USDOT number. Which means that while operated by Lake Erie Fanfare, it is a completely legal vehicle for where they operate. And since Pioneer became the operator of the vehicle, it was completely legal to operate outside of the state since Pioneer has a valid USDOT number."

PA got rid of the license plate stickers last year for cars but I didn’t know about commercial vehicles. Still have inspection stickers on windshield so that should be what to check.

Edit: Saw the above after I posted... 

Edited September 11, 2018 by JimF-LowBari

[Tim K]

3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

DCI was quick, generous and hardworking in assisting Cadets when their director/BOD turned over in April.  Of course, the goal was to get the Cadets on the road 2 months later, whereas with Pioneer the goal is to field in 22 months.  To be fair, DCI should provide just as much assistance to Pioneer as they did to Cadets... but it can be spread out over time.

Also, DCI assistance is one thing.  But ultimately, the corps has to come up with their own people.  DCI does not assign their own employees to a corps BOD or directorship (although a recent DCI survey asks if they should consider that in the future).  YEA! had four people step up fairly quickly as replacements for the former BOD, and from there they could make their own hiring decisions for corps admins and staff as needed during the eventful run-up to the 2018 season.  For Pioneer to return, they will have to assemble a new BOD... but it may not happen overnight.

Folks like George Dixon, xandandl, or Jeff Ream may be more informed about this matter, but I recall Cadets alums stepping in prior to DCI stepping into the situation.

Regarding DCI assistance, my guess would be that if folks from the Pioneer interim board contacted DCI for recommendations for board members rather than advertising on their website, DCI could provide the names of lots of qualified and talented folks who live within the vicinity of Milwaukee. It could serve a dual purpose. One it would assure the folks who are skeptical of the interim board that new outsiders are part of the reorganization, two, it would show DCI is committed to marching member safety by recommending qualified folks. 

[xandandl]

1 hour ago, Tim K said:

Folks like George Dixon, xandandl, or Jeff Ream may be more informed about this matter, but I recall Cadets alums stepping in prior to DCI stepping into the situation.

Regarding DCI assistance, my guess would be that if folks from the Pioneer interim board contacted DCI for recommendations for board members rather than advertising on their website, DCI could provide the names of lots of qualified and talented folks who live within the vicinity of Milwaukee. It could serve a dual purpose. One it would assure the folks who are skeptical of the interim board that new outsiders are part of the reorganization, two, it would show DCI is committed to marching member safety by recommending qualified folks. 

Someone else will have to field this.

Edited September 11, 2018 by xandandl

[skevinp]

7 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

A Pioneer marcher posted on reddit nearly four weeks ago, impugning the legality and safety of the LER bus.  That same poster issued an apology on reddit last night (excerpt follows):

"I had mentioned that the bus' license plate registration stickers had expired. Well I later found out that Pennsylvania had stopped the renewal stickers. Therefore meaning that the plate would appear to seem expired if you didn't know about the new law Pennsylvania passed. I also said that their USDOT registration seems to no longer be active. Well, after looking into what qualifications the USDOT has set for whether or not an owner operator needs a USDOT number. It appears that the bus never gets driven out of state. So therefore the owner operator does not need a USDOT number. Which means that while operated by Lake Erie Fanfare, it is a completely legal vehicle for where they operate. And since Pioneer became the operator of the vehicle, it was completely legal to operate outside of the state since Pioneer has a valid USDOT number."

Just want to point out that this was just one of many, many issues raised by the Pioneer mm, and that none of the many others have been called into question afaik.  The poster's dedication to truthfulness and accuracy showed by the care he took to correct his statement only strengthens, in my mind, his credibility and the believability of the other matters.

[Jeff Ream]

3 hours ago, Tim K said:

Folks like George Dixon, xandandl, or Jeff Ream may be more informed about this matter, but I recall Cadets alums stepping in prior to DCI stepping into the situation.

Regarding DCI assistance, my guess would be that if folks from the Pioneer interim board contacted DCI for recommendations for board members rather than advertising on their website, DCI could provide the names of lots of qualified and talented folks who live within the vicinity of Milwaukee. It could serve a dual purpose. One it would assure the folks who are skeptical of the interim board that new outsiders are part of the reorganization, two, it would show DCI is committed to marching member safety by recommending qualified folks. 

Cadets alumni had been chomping at the bit for years to be more involved. When the rumors started 5 months prior I can almost guarantee discussions starting happening. How involved dci was in those I don’t know

[garfield]

1 minute ago, skevinp said:

Just want to point out that this was just one of many, many issues raised by the Pioneer mm, and that none of the many others have been called into question afaik.  The poster's dedication to truthfulness and accuracy showed by the care he took to correct his statement only strengthens, in my mind, his credibility and the believability of the other matters.

Interesting perspective.

For me personally, his error would call into question his other contentions.  His original contentions were, supposedly, well conceived and sourced and, yet, they were wrong.

I would be more convinced of his other statements had this one proven correct as it seems to be one of the easier ones to verify prior to making the claim.  

 

[Jeff Ream]

3 hours ago, Tim K said:

Folks like George Dixon, xandandl, or Jeff Ream may be more informed about this matter, but I recall Cadets alums stepping in prior to DCI stepping into the situation.

Regarding DCI assistance, my guess would be that if folks from the Pioneer interim board contacted DCI for recommendations for board members rather than advertising on their website, DCI could provide the names of lots of qualified and talented folks who live within the vicinity of Milwaukee. It could serve a dual purpose. One it would assure the folks who are skeptical of the interim board that new outsiders are part of the reorganization, two, it would show DCI is committed to marching member safety by recommending qualified folks. 

I’m sure dci has provided counsel. I can’t guarantee it’s listened to

[JimF-LowBari]

9 minutes ago, garfield said:

Interesting perspective.

For me personally, his error would call into question his other contentions.  His original contentions were, supposedly, well conceived and sourced and, yet, they were wrong.

I would be more convinced of his other statements had this one proven correct as it seems to be one of the easier ones to verify prior to making the claim.  

 

My understanding is his belief was based on a missing license plate sticker and missing ITC number.

PA stopped requiring annual stickers just over a year or so and took a full year for all to be out of date or removed. Not common knowledge outside of PA. ITC number I wouldn’t have known enough to check. Only think he/she really missed was checking inspection sticker which are still used. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by JimF-LowBari

[BigW]

18 minutes ago, garfield said:

Interesting perspective.

For me personally, his error would call into question his other contentions.  His original contentions were, supposedly, well conceived and sourced and, yet, they were wrong.

I would be more convinced of his other statements had this one proven correct as it seems to be one of the easier ones to verify prior to making the claim.  

 

IIRC, some of what was said was overlapped by others. Evidently, enough of the claims from enough directions were found to be true by DCI, especially the one where there was the attempted cover-up/hush-up by the Director. I'm still convinced that was the Big One, or one of the top reasons to take action in DCI's eyes.

 

I have a deep gut feeling and also a deep logical feeling the kids here and at OC aren't making up fables from whole cloth, though one has to do solid investigation to verify. This being a good example.