Caption Awards

[Jurassic Lancer]

2 hours ago, Fran Haring said:

Man... that's a lot for an announcer to say!!! 

 

But the announcer can get away with it if they wear a loud Hawaiian shirt!

Edited September 25, 2018 by Jurassic Lancer

[BRASSO]

4 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

 even at the end if one wants to average then do the entire thing by average. 

 Thats what DCI does. They average the scores of the 3 nites at Championships where all the Corps have put in changes and unveiled their final product to determine the best Brass, Percussion, Guard. Your suggestion to average all the season's show scores to arrive at this sounds pretty silly to me. I  can't imagine DCI, nor many fans, wanting something like this as the formula to be utilized. Early season shows go through many changes with deletions, additions, modifications and alterations before Championships week final product is produced in performance.. Counting early season shows scores/ placements into the average. ie " the entire thing ( season) " to determine the best Brass, Percussion, Guard in DCI makes no sense to me at all to even consider doing it in this fashion. Oh well.

Edited September 26, 2018 by BRASSO

[Sideways]

I look at it this way...there are two different contests going on during finals week. First and foremost is the contest to determine the dci champion...the traditional who performs best on any given night.  In theory, you knock it out of the park and you win the founders trophy.

Caption awards are a secondary contest and are awarded based on consistency across all three night (and also helps mitigate for any judging bias...real or not). I really have no problem with this especially since in the case of a tie...finals night judging is the tie breaker.

[Sideways]

Now I want to talk about the Ott with four different corps winning in the last five years.

2014 BD 

2015 Cadets

2016/17 Crown

2018 SCV

I am loving the diversity in this caption.  Crown is the known quantity year in and year out no matter what their book is.  Cadets...Gino never seems to change his approach but the talent level varies and everything converged in 2015 to great effect.  When BD brass clicks with the book you get something awesome like 2014...but I would kill for one of those early 90s books to make a return visit to the field.  All of the above were awesome but were very refined and did not take a lot of chances in their approach.

SCV this year stood out from the recent Ott winners.  Their approach to brass was very raw...high risk/high reward.  The kids were trained extremely well but not held back either.  To me this was very reminiscent of Phantom from ‘93, ‘96, ‘03 or SCV ‘98-‘99.  I cannot tell you how much I loved hearing them just going for the jugular and on the very edge of over blowing but never crossing it.  To me this approach to brass has been sorely lacking from dci in the last decade or so.  Granted it suited their book and the emotions they were going for...

Do not take me wrong with not appreciating what crown has achieved in the last decade.  I can not argue with their achievement numbers and their approach also generate huge effect numbers but there is a certain intangible that their approach cannot match with the way SCV played this year.

[GUARDLING]

1 hour ago, BRASSO said:

 Thats what DCI does. They average the scores of the 3 nites at Championships where all the Corps have put in changes and unveiled their final product to determine the best Brass, Percussion, Guard. Your suggestion to average all the season's show scores to arrive at this sounds pretty silly to me. I  can't imagine DCI, nor many fans, wanting something like this as the formula to be utilized. Early season shows go through many changes with deletions, additions, modifications and alterations before Championships week final product is produced in performance.. Counting early season shows scores/ placements into the average. ie " the entire thing ( season) " to determine the best Brass, Percussion, Guard in DCI makes no sense to me at all to even consider doing it in this fashion. Oh well.

3

Well of course it's silly.you're right..and IMO so is doing it at finals..do a double panel and the separate judges are viewing the same show.. then average it. That was exactly my point. IMO

Edited September 26, 2018 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

44 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Well of course it's silly.you're right..and IMO so is doing it at finals..do a double panel and the separate judges are viewing the same show.. then average it. That was exactly my point. IMO

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

31 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 

 

 

 

Confused?Sorry about that. My point was, and I was agreeing with you, that to me 3 days average of different shows is as silly as averaging an entire season. Now going back a few posts where we agreed. DCI probably won't want to pony up the money( agree) although, they should☺️imo

Edited September 26, 2018 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

33 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Confused?Sorry about that. My point was, and I was agreeing with you, that to me 3 days average of different shows is as silly as averaging an entire season.  

 Maybe I wasn't as clear to you either here. For example, I do not believe the current 3 day average formula adopted by DCI and the Corps for assigning the Ott, ( Best Brass ) the Sanford ( Best Percussion ), the Zingali ( best Guard ) awards is a " silly " methodology to do this at all . As a matter of fact. I support the formula thats been adopted by DCI. I find it an improvement over the previous system ( one show ). I believe it to be the best way to do this. It allows 3 panels, 3 show performances, to more fully determine the winner of these, imo.

 I do not support any efforts to return to the previous formula utilized to determine the Ott, Sanford, Zingali DCI Awards. I understand you would prefer a Finals Night performance alone to determine who wins such sectional awards.. the older system, and I respect that, while disagreeing with you that DCI should return to this outdated formula.  Finally, I do believe it would be positively silly to consider a formula that would entail the averaging out of the Corps scores from the entire season to determine that season's Ott, Sanford, Zingali Awards. We both appear to agree that this would be silly, and would probably have little to no support by the Corps, nor most fans, to consider doing it this way ( for reasons expressed here above  ). 

Edited September 26, 2018 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

4 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Maybe I wasn't as clear to you either here. For example, I do not believe the current 3 day average formula adopted by DCI and the Corps for assigning the Ott, ( Best Brass ) the Sanford ( Best Percussion ), the Zingali ( best Guard ) awards is a " silly " methodology to do this at all . As a matter of fact. I support the formula thats been adopted by DCI. I find it an improvement over the previous system ( one show ). I believe it to be the best way to do this.

 I do not support any efforts to return to the previous formula utilized to determine the Ott, Sanford, Zingali DCI Awards. I understand you would prefer a Finals Night performance alone to determine who wins such sectional awards.. the older system, and I respect that, while disagreeing with you that DCI should return to this formula.  Finally, I do believe it would be positively silly to consider a formula that would entail the averaging out of the Corps scores from the entire season to determine that season's Ott, Sanford, Zingali. We both appear to agree that this would be silly, and would probably have little to no support by the Corps, nor most fans, to consider doing it this way ( for reasons expressed here above  ). 

4

I do agree to a point that the old way of 1 judge deciding probably doesn't work, again it's why a double panel would work imo

We may be on slightly different pages BUT of the same book....I think...lol

Edited September 26, 2018 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

29 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

I do agree to a point that the old way of 1 judge deciding probably doesn't work, again it's why a double panel would work imo

 

 I don't see a " double panel "on Finals Night as workable however... nor as an improvement over the current methodology the Corps/ DCI have adopted and agreed upon. The introduction of " double panels " in Brass, Percussion, Guard for Finals Night, but not for Quarters, Semi's affects in a major way the allotment of points on Finals Night competition, that would be at odds with the allotment of points on Quarterfinals and the SemiFinals... unless I'm missing something here. Changing to ( for example ) 2 Brass judges and 2 Guard judges, 2 Percussion judges, changes everything on Finals Night, compared with the previous 2 nights, and is not a sensible way to decide a DCI Champion for that season, imo, let alone Best Brass, Best Percussion, Best Guard at DCI Championships, imo. If you are recommending DCI have " double panels", they'd have to have them for all the 3 nites of Quarters, Semi's and Finals at their DCI championships to make any rational sense at all it would seem to me. But this seems out of the question, as the Corps don't seem to have any interest at the moment in going to any " double panels " at Championships for the 3 nites of competitions, and for reasons beyond just the additional costs to do this too, I'd imagine.

Edited September 26, 2018 by BRASSO