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15 hours ago, BigW said:

. The answer would be what the corps themselves would like the best to suit their needs and desires.

 

 Yup.. thats  how the Corps have decided to do it for quite awhile now. They made changes they believed were an improvement on the previous formula utilized. Like any change DCI decides upon, some fans like those changes, some fans dislike those changes, some fans don't care either way.

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7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

The end game is the LAST show. But we go off of an average of the last 3 shows. A walking contradiction

 Not really a " walking contradiction ", imo. DCI for just one example of other " averaging " thats utilized,  DCI makes determinations on order of appearance at Regionals shows based upon "average scores/ placements" up to that point.  WGI does so too. DCI also has some shows with 2 judges in a caption, but splits them and " averages " them out for the score in that caption in that show competition. If some fans like the older, single show, single judge formula once utilized to determine Best Brass, Best Percussion, Best Guard, thats fine too.. But I hardly view this newer " averaging " based , 3 day, 3 panels, Championships formula now utilized as any " walking contradiction " to have DCI Corps agree to do it now in this fashion. DCI has lots of different sized panels throughout the season too. Most panels are smaller than what they'll have on Finals Night than what the Corps had for 95% of their competition shows that season. Is this then a " walking contradiction " to have a different sized judging panels at Championships than what the Corps had for the panels throughout most of the season ?

 Finally, although not a perfect analogy, I'll share this thought anyway :. If in the judgement of a Physician , we need a major surgery, is it better to have one judgement with this with the one Physician, or perhaps 3 Physicians given a chance to diagnose us, and give us their expert judgement ? Assuming all are of equal experience and abilities to assess, I'll take the considered wisdom of three together, than the single assessment from the one. 12 combined eyes/ ears of the 3 tend to be far better assessors than the 4 eyes/ ears of just the one, imo. We won't " average " these out, of course. But its far preferable to have 3 assess for us " whats the best ", than to have just the one tell us " whats the best ", imo.

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6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

The end game is the LAST show. But we go off of an average of the last 3 shows. A walking contradiction

I don't consider it a contradiction.  The current system allows multiple judges to decide every trophy.  The overall score is already decided by multiple judges on a given night.  For something as narrow as caption awards, it's nice to have multiple judges weigh in.  

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3 hours ago, Ediker said:

I don't consider it a contradiction.  The current system allows multiple judges to decide every trophy.  The overall score is already decided by multiple judges on a given night.  For something as narrow as caption awards, it's nice to have multiple judges weigh in.  

Sorry but being the championship guard yet you didn’t win finals night is hollow 

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3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Sorry but being the championship guard yet you didn’t win finals night is hollow 

 Well that sure is a rather crude and insulting assessment and remark from someone that still judges in MB circuits,.imo. Lots of Corps over the years have not won Guard, Brass,Percussion on Finals Night, but won the Ott, Sanford, Zingalli nevertheless under the accepted formula that has been in place now in DCI since 2001.,Jeff. Furthermore, not once in your 100,000 posts on DCP have you ever said that the DCI winner of the Ott, or the Sanford, or the Zingali is a " hollow " achievement, if a Corps did not win that caption on Finals Night, but might've come dam close to winning it then too.. Thats a real kick in the groin to the kids in the Corps of these caption award winners over the years because you  don't particularly like the current accepted methodology utilized to determine these winners of these captions. You are certainly entitled to your opinion that you dislike the current DCI formula agreed too, and accepted by the Corps in competition for years and years. You could have given your reasons for your dislike of the current DCI methodology utilized and simply left it at that., But then for you to decide to make a really unneccesaary insult to the kids in a corps that happened to win that caption this year because your wishes for a different system for determining these things is not in place at the moment is really regrettable. Its not your finest hour, nor remarks, Jeff. its cringeworthy in its insulting tone, imo.. But..you are certainly entitled to insult winners of captions like this too. No quibble on that. You have that right But when we look around and see why kids don't frequent DCP much anymore, its insulting comments like this that tends to drive the successful away... because even when they " win ", they might be told their hard won achievement was actually considered " hollow " by a poster thats a long time judge and has 100,000 posts ( or more ) here on DCP, but doesn't like the current DCI judging system that determines caption winners thats been agreed upon since 2001 by the Corps in DCI themselves.

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2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Sorry but being the championship guard yet you didn’t win finals night is hollow 

You are entitled to your opinion.  So with your logic that means in 2017 the Santa Clara Vanguard who WON Best Color Guard was ALSO a HOLLOW WIN because Blue Devils won that caption on FINALS night...19.6/19.3 respectively...I haven't even looked at other years...averaging has occurred since 2001...

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7 hours ago, BRASSO said:

 Well that sure is a rather crude and insulting assessment and remark from someone that still judges in MB circuits,.imo. Lots of Corps over the years have not won Guard, Brass,Percussion on Finals Night, but won the Ott, Sanford, Zingalli nevertheless under the accepted formula that has been in place now in DCI since 2001.,Jeff. Furthermore, not once in your 100,000 posts on DCP have you ever said that the DCI winner of the Ott, or the Sanford, or the Zingali is a " hollow " achievement, if a Corps did not win that caption on Finals Night, but might've come dam close to winning it then too.. Thats a real kick in the groin to the kids in the Corps of these caption award winners over the years because you  don't particularly like the current accepted methodology utilized to determine these winners of these captions. You are certainly entitled to your opinion that you dislike the current DCI formula agreed too, and accepted by the Corps in competition for years and years. You could have given your reasons for your dislike of the current DCI methodology utilized and simply left it at that., But then for you to decide to make a really unneccesaary insult to the kids in a corps that happened to win that caption this year because your wishes for a different system for determining these things is not in place at the moment is really regrettable. Its not your finest hour, nor remarks, Jeff. its cringeworthy in its insulting tone, imo.. But..you are certainly entitled to insult winners of captions like this too. No quibble on that. You have that right But when we look around and see why kids don't frequent DCP much anymore, its insulting comments like this that tends to drive the successful away... because even when they " win ", they might be told their hard won achievement was actually considered " hollow " by a poster thats a long time judge and has 100,000 posts ( or more ) here on DCP, but doesn't like the current DCI judging system that determines caption winners thats been agreed upon since 2001 by the Corps in DCI themselves.

I’d feel that way with any caption. Just because I may have never posted it ,and did you look at every post or are you talking out of your ### again because I have expressed disdain for averages of the three nights before? Or is it because I said guard ( when really I just picked a caption, Boston should have won guard every night?)

 

otherwise do us all a favor favor and stop trying to assume evil intentions to my post because it just shows you for the over sensitive blowhard you are 

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6 hours ago, Liahona said:

You are entitled to your opinion.  So with your logic that means in 2017 the Santa Clara Vanguard who WON Best Color Guard was ALSO a HOLLOW WIN because Blue Devils won that caption on FINALS night...19.6/19.3 respectively...I haven't even looked at other years...averaging has occurred since 2001...

Yes. And any other caption winner over the years. I’ve said to people in DCA back when it was ex and ensemble and they won ensemble but not ex yet the total score went in their favor. “ you’re the drum champ, but not the cleanest on the field.” Genius 

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On 9/25/2018 at 3:55 PM, Fran Haring said:

Man... that's a lot for an announcer to say!!!  :tongue:

Seriously... I agree.  If the overall champion is determined by Finals-night scores... the caption winners should be, 

In that case, the Blue Devils would have won their 11th consecutive Color Guard trophy. I wonder how many would bemoan that. (They've lost 3 in a row yet still had the highest score from the finals judges.)

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3 minutes ago, Tad_MMA said:

In that case, the Blue Devils would have won their 11th consecutive Color Guard trophy. I wonder how many would bemoan that. (They've lost 3 in a row yet still had the highest score from the finals judges.)

Well... I won't say who, but I know of at least one person not happy with that!!! :laughing:

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