Jeff Ream Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 45 minutes ago, MikeD said: Because. 😎 Thank you for proving the lack of logic used for determining caption winners 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 11 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: So why do we average caption winners over three days but not he final champion overall? Asking for a friend Maybe because for a caption award, a single judge could literally decide it all... but that is not true of the overall result. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Maybe because for a caption award, a single judge could literally decide it all... but that is not true of the overall result. Couldn't a case be made that a single judge could indeed influence or determine a result on any given night? On the DCA side, one judge flipped the positions of two corps from prelims to finals a couple of years ago... that judge's score in that particular caption was basically the exact opposite of what had happened all summer, including at prelims, involving that specific caption and those two corps. Result.... one corps up, the other down. I know, I know... that's just one example. LOL. Edited October 9, 2018 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 16 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Maybe because for a caption award, a single judge could literally decide it all... but that is not true of the overall result. except, well it could be exactly as you describe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Fran Haring said: Couldn't a case be made that a single judge could indeed influence or determine a result on any given night? On the DCA side, one judge flipped the positions of two corps from prelims to finals a couple of years ago... that judge's score in that particular caption was basically the exact opposite of what had happened all summer, including at prelims, involving that specific caption and those two corps. Result.... one corps up, the other down. I know, I know... that's just one example. LOL. Yes, a single judge can influence overall placings... but not literally determine them. To have that influence requires that the other judges cumulatively keep the scoring close enough. A caption such as colorguard is scored by a single judge. A caption award based on finals only would be determined, literally, by one judge. Taking three rounds into account, it is determined by three judges. In comparison, overall placing in finals is still determined by a much larger pool of 11 opinions (12 if there are penalties). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: Yes, a single judge can influence overall placings... but not literally determine them. To have that influence requires that the other judges cumulatively keep the scoring close enough. Which can and does happen depending on the panels and sometimes circuit. Many times, it's not deliberate. The last thing one should do as an adjudicator is worry about what the rest of the panel might do or their tendencies. Get your caption right and straight, and the system should work as intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 10/8/2018 at 6:53 AM, cixelsyd said: Maybe because for a caption award, a single judge could literally decide it all... but that is not true of the overall result. Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 17 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Yes, a single judge can influence overall placings... but not literally determine them. To have that influence requires that the other judges cumulatively keep the scoring close enough. A caption such as colorguard is scored by a single judge. A caption award based on finals only would be determined, literally, by one judge. Taking three rounds into account, it is determined by three judges. In comparison, overall placing in finals is still determined by a much larger pool of 11 opinions (12 if there are penalties). actually a rogue judge could. remember Crown suddenly being 2nd in semis in drums, then back to 6th at finals? And since guard and percussion are the two captions most likely to make a call and not follow the herd..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: actually a rogue judge could. remember Crown suddenly being 2nd in semis in drums, then back to 6th at finals? And since guard and percussion are the two captions most likely to make a call and not follow the herd..... No, I do not remember Crown percussion taking 2nd in semis and 6th the next day. When was that? Still, for such an event to affect overall placement, that still requires other judges to make it possible. The Crown drumline careened around from 3rd to 7th in 2012, but their overall placement remained the same. Show Drums Overall San Antonio 3 2 Atlanta 7 2 Prelims 3 2 Semis 4 2 Finals 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 43 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: No, I do not remember Crown percussion taking 2nd in semis and 6th the next day. When was that? Still, for such an event to affect overall placement, that still requires other judges to make it possible. The Crown drumline careened around from 3rd to 7th in 2012, but their overall placement remained the same. Show Drums Overall San Antonio 3 2 Atlanta 7 2 Prelims 3 2 Semis 4 2 Finals 6 2 even in the new system, all it takes is one judge. spread has to be bigger, but it's enough, and there was lots of hand wringing in the year Crown won that drums could cost them the title. Same thing for captions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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