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3 hours ago, seen-it-all said:

Any arrangement that could allow a corps to win a caption award on a night in which they did not actually win that caption is absurd in its very concept. If averaging numbers leads to less bias, then double up the entire panel for Finals night. But for the love of all things holy, stop using numbers from previous performances to determine the winner of caption awards on FINALS NIGHT.

no matter what arrangement is used to achieve caption award status, it's still just a judge's opinion...not an infallible, repeatable fact but a perspective whether rendered by one person or more.

In my perspective from over fifty years in the activity, FINALS NIGHT has all the glitz and glamour but not always the best performance(s) of the week. Semis, even prelims, should not be discounted. jmho.

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3 hours ago, seen-it-all said:

Any arrangement that could allow a corps to win a caption award on a night in which they did not actually win that caption is absurd in its very concept. If averaging numbers leads to less bias, then double up the entire panel for Finals night. But for the love of all things holy, stop using numbers from previous performances to determine the winner of caption awards on FINALS NIGHT.

So those corps whose guard was in a position to be top guard, who had an issue with a judge during the past year/s, they'd be happy to see that judge in finals?  Say for instance a corps who had issues with Ms. Torchia?  So they get top guard in quarters and semis the awwww too bad, the finals judge thinks some other guard was better.  Oh and that guard never beat you throughout the season.  Yeah.  Give me the three nightcsveragecto make sure something like that doesn't happen.  And it seems that happens with GE.

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2 hours ago, LabMaster said:

So those corps whose guard was in a position to be top guard, who had an issue with a judge during the past year/s, they'd be happy to see that judge in finals?  Say for instance a corps who had issues with Ms. Torchia?  So they get top guard in quarters and semis the awwww too bad, the finals judge thinks some other guard was better.  Oh and that guard never beat you throughout the season.  Yeah.  Give me the three nightcsveragecto make sure something like that doesn't happen.  And it seems that happens with GE.

4
4

NM ☺️ 

Edited by GUARDLING

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On 9/20/2018 at 6:34 PM, quietcity said:

SCV and Cadets tied for top brass in 87. SCV tied with BD and Cadets in 84. 

SCV went on 4th from last in ‘84, and took 1st outright In Field Brass with a 10/10. I can still hear my frack on the recording during the nasty blind back up move the lead baris (there were only four of us) did in Tenderland during the sop feature and wonder if that hurt the upstairs score. :doh: 

Edited by TRacer
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On 9/21/2018 at 1:20 PM, Jeff Ream said:

 

 

and the average thing needs to go away

 I disagree. A 3 night average ( the current method DCI Corps have decided to do it) is the best way to do this, imo. it exposes all the Corps to 3 seperate judging panels, on 3 different nites performances, and thus a better barometer overall as to who is the best in Brass, Percussion, Guard that season. Its way better, imo, than having a single judge judging one night's performance alone, to determine who has the best Brass, Percussion, Guard in DCI that season.

Edited by BRASSO
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8 hours ago, BRASSO said:

 I disagree. A 3 night average ( the current method DCI Corps have decided to do it) is the best way to do this, imo. it exposes all the Corps to 3 seperate judging panels, on 3 different nites performances, and thus a better barometer overall as to who is the best in Brass, Percussion, Guard that season. Its way better, imo, than having a single judge judging one night's performance alone, to determine who has the best Brass, Percussion, Guard in DCI that season.

the highlighted part is exactly the point of difference between the wise like your and mine opinion on this and then the others who disagree that it is a better barometer. Neither side has convinced the other; or at least those favoring the one night stand have not convinced me of the benefits other than that their favorite corps/guard they say is primed to peak at Finals (which doesn't always happen.)  

Do you remember how Beth Fabrizio, the horn judge, was castigated mercilessly here on DCP because she scored Cadets' hornline on a given night over a usual and expected favorite? It wasn't bias but an outlier opinion on the performances of that given night. Funny how the one night standers don't review their own posts on such scoring.

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OK, i tried to stay out of this..lol.... let's try this, 

The top corps do not have much difference between them. Corps during those 3 nights can have a slight difference in performance which when corps are so close it can make a huge difference. If one really wants to NOT leave it to 1 judge then have double panels on everything the night of finals. Is it really fair for the corps who puts it all out there on finals night NOT to be the winner either overall or even a caption. You all can argue that point☺️or not..lol

Edited by GUARDLING
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2 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

If one really wants to NOT leave it to 1 judge then have double panels on everything the night of finals. 

 I'd be supportive of this new proposal for DCI from you., and would support such a proposal if it ever came up at the DCI Winter Meetings for possible implementation.  But the reality is that it was difficult to get DCI to abandon the partial judging panels in early season DCI shows and return to full panels. So I doubt that DCI is about to consider doubling the panels on finals night any time soon. The current system assigns the best Brass. Percussion, Guard over a 3 nite's competition, averaged out over the 3 nites competition with 3 separate judging panels. DCI used to do it with one nite, one judge, to decide this, but changed it to the 3 nite average as a better way to determine this. I like this change they implemented in the formula they currently utilize over the one judge, one night formula they previously utilized. The Corps themselves now prefer the 3 night average as a better formula to determine these things.

Edited by BRASSO

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6 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 I'd be supportive of this new proposal for DCI from you., and would support such a proposal if it ever came up at the DCI Winter Meetings for possible implementation.  But the reality is that it was difficult to get DCI to abandon the partial judging panels in June and return to full panels. So I doubt that DCI is about to consider doubling the panels on finals night any time soon. The current system assigns the best Brass. Percussion, Guard over a 3 day nite competition, averaged out over the 3 nites competition with 3 separate judging panels. DCI used to do it with one nite, one judge to decide this, but changed it to the 3 nite average as a better way to determine this. I like this change they implemented in the formula they currently utilize. The Corps themselves now do too.

We talk about how show to show doesn't matter during the summer so why would night to night matter. Averaging from other shows does not IMO paint the pic of the winner THAT NIGHT. It's so close between corps taking another show into account to me doesn't mean the best of the night. If we want that then why not average the entire season.

AS far as DCI , enough money is made pony up and pay for a double panel. Others like WGI do it. Well, corps will do what they want BUT let's see if this can get somewhere...lol..of course, all just my opinion

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19 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

We talk about how show to show doesn't matter during the summer so why would night to night matter. 

 Well,  don't conflate early season scores, placements that you ( or others ) might say " doesn't matter ", with Championships as these early season shows do not contain all the World Class & Open Class Corps together in one setting, head to head. The Championships in August, where Corps have put in their final product, is the ONLY setting where the final product with these DCI Corps is judged in competition by the multiple judging panels over multiple back to back nites.

Edited by BRASSO

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