Caption Awards

[Tad_MMA]

On 9/24/2018 at 11:22 PM, TRacer said:

SCV went on 4th from last in ‘84, and took 1st outright In Field Brass with a 10/10. I can still hear my frack on the recording during the nasty blind back up move the lead baris (there were only four of us) did in Tenderland during the sop feature and wonder if that hurt the upstairs score.  

No, SCV was rewarded a 9.9 in field brass on Saturday. The only "perfect" scores that night were Garfield's 15s in GE Visual/Brass (SCV finished 4th in GE Brass). That was the first all-buildup year in judging, and while some were taking risks, they were also getting their feet wet. 27th Lancers performed SECOND yet their drum scores were 9.8 and 9.9.

[Fran Haring]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

Yes. And any other caption winner over the years. I’ve said to people in DCA back when it was ex and ensemble and they won ensemble but not ex yet the total score went in their favor. “ you’re the drum champ, but not the cleanest on the field.” Genius 

Remember those days??? I think in my era, it was GE and ex combined, or something like that, for at least a year or two. We lost a Best Visual trophy because of that.... took marching ex by a narrow margin, lost effect by a somewhat wider margin to another corps, and thus that corps took home the trophy.  Didn't matter much to us, since we won the championship.  LOL.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Fran Haring

[Tad_MMA]

Caption awards have been decided so differently over the years that there would be many, many changes if today's rules applied. I still think the stupidest rule was in '88/'89. The horrible 6-panel system (which got it wrong both years) had 3 performance judges and 3 GE judges. Trophies were decided by adding the respective Perf + GE numbers. So SCV got to win overall GE *AND* Percussion -- even though on both nights, Garfield had the top performance score. None of the previous ties would have stood, even with multiple numbers deciding. Plus, in the days of counting mistakes (ticking), things might have been far different by rating achievement like today. Basically, we accept the current system, whatever it is. I can debate all day how under today's (superior) system, SCV would have beaten Madison in '88, and Phantom would have won in '89.

[Fran Haring]

13 minutes ago, Tad_MMA said:

Caption awards have been decided so differently over the years that there would be many, many changes if today's rules applied. I still think the stupidest rule was in '88/'89. The horrible 6-panel system (which got it wrong both years) had 3 performance judges and 3 GE judges. Trophies were decided by adding the respective Perf + GE numbers. So SCV got to win overall GE *AND* Percussion -- even though on both nights, Garfield had the top performance score. None of the previous ties would have stood, even with multiple numbers deciding. Plus, in the days of counting mistakes (ticking), things might have been far different by rating achievement like today. Basically, we accept the current system, whatever it is. I can debate all day how under today's (superior) system, SCV would have beaten Madison in '88, and Phantom would have won in '89.

Good point. We all have opinions on whether the rules should, or should not, be changed.... but none of us have a vote.  LOL.

Until I read your post, I had no idea what the system was in 1988 and '89.  Does sound kinda weird.

[Tad_MMA]

Just now, Fran Haring said:

Good point. We all have opinions on whether the rules should, or should not, be changed.... but none of us have a vote.  LOL.

Until I read your post, I had no idea what the system was in 1988 and '89.  Does sound kinda weird.

It was awful. I even got judges to admit it. The economy was good, but DCI's wasn't, so they economized on paying judges. One bad number could throw the thing (Phantom's drums in 1989). Granted, under that system, they would have destroyed BD in 2008 rather than winning by a hair.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Tad_MMA said:

In that case, the Blue Devils would have won their 11th consecutive Color Guard trophy. I wonder how many would bemoan that. (They've lost 3 in a row yet still had the highest score from the finals judges.)

That to me says more about judge selection in that caption. 

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Fran Haring said:

Remember those days??? I think in my era, it was GE and ex combined, or something like that, for at least a year or two. We lost a Best Visual trophy because of that.... took marching ex by a narrow margin, lost effect by a somewhat wider margin to another corps, and thus that corps took home the trophy.  Didn't matter much to us, since we won the championship.  LOL.

I loved it. In 89 and 91 we won ex yet Bush won ensemble and drums overall. In 95 we won ex and drums overall, but not ensemble. 

[Jeff Ream]

51 minutes ago, Tad_MMA said:

It was awful. I even got judges to admit it. The economy was good, but DCI's wasn't, so they economized on paying judges. One bad number could throw the thing (Phantom's drums in 1989). Granted, under that system, they would have destroyed BD in 2008 rather than winning by a hair.

I still say Phantoms percussion costs them 89 under any system 

[Tad_MMA]

1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

I still say Phantoms percussion costs them 89 under any system 

Oh? SCV beat them overall by 0.4 and in drums by 0.5. Under today's system (with FOUR GE judges), Phantom loses drums by .25 and certainly picks up in MA and Guard. Believe me, I've done the math. Unfortunately, SCV would beat Garfield '87 under today's rules, given Garfield's icky guard.

 

[Tad_MMA]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

That to me says more about judge selection in that caption. 

11 years in a row? 11 judges in a row? C'mon. W. Chumley "disagreed" with the prior judges in 2016 who had Crown a combined 0.4 ahead of BD. In Finals, he had Crown at 19.6 and BD at 19.9 (CC won guard) -- last month, he had BD in FOURTH in semifinals' guard (they won Thurs and Sat). So, cross him off your list.