Jump to content

Tarpon Springs - Digital Screens


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, garfield said:

Do they really "dig" what they're seeing?  Or are they digging it because adult judges are rewarding those things and telling those performing kids what wins in "Cool!" land.

I'm significantly confident that, if drum corps judges told those same kids that analog, prop-less performances of musical and visual excellence can win without props or, even A&E!, band kids who are full of A&E would flock to drum corps and analog "DCI" would be Cool again.

Few would argue that the pendulum of the activity has swung wildly in favor of "anything goes" and "We'll judge what we see" (aka, excuses for unfinished shows), and it's reasonable that, similar to society, it might be time for drum corps to perform and compete under a different and, maybe, more stringent set of more-objective metrics.

Tell kids that performing excellence within "these defined" guardrails (whatever) is rewarded with outstanding teaching, performance excellence, and Saturday night "roar of the crowd" performances and they will flock to the winners in that idiom.  Doing so teaches the same performance and "life" lessons as the activity does now and ONLY excludes the avante-gard designers who wish to make their bones on the backs of performers paying, and playing, for applause only.  Seriously, in an activity where $15,000 can easily DOUBLE the money spent on WC/OC staff, even if renting these screens and their transports costs just $5,000 a season is, IMO, awfully hard to justify.

Tell the kids that inspections before performances are a way to win and watch how fast you see uniform standards change.

The adults of DCI lead the activity.  It is their interpretation of "today's kids" that sets their policy of performance standards.  They are sheep largely with a belief that they must follow the herd to be relevant, and they don't need to be.

Being different in what is valued is taught and directed by the leaders of the activity.  Don't be fooled into thinking that the kids won't adapt with excellence if the adults establish what's valued with a high score.

IMO, anyway.

 

scores influence kids less than things they see viewed as cool. Kids raved over Bluecoats last year even though they were not a serious contender. Kids crapped on the Cadets many years before they dropped out of the top spot. Why? The shows weren't seen as "cool". For 2 decades kids raved about Madison when they won 2 titles. Crown has 1 win, but from 2008 to the present ( tho less so this past year) kids fanboy'd them like they were N'Sync.

 

scores mean more to fickle adults than to kids

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

My guess is that for a marching band like Tarpon Springs, a LOT of the show design and operating budget comes from fund-raising by parents/kids, not the public school budget. 

agreed. an overwhelming majority of the competitive bands out there get far less from the school itself than you think. Where I used to teach hosting a great indoor and outdoor show covered the costs and some of the leftover was given to help other musical porgrams

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, garfield said:

Do they really "dig" what they're seeing?  Or are they digging it because adult judges are rewarding those things and telling those performing kids what wins in "Cool!" land.

Wow. You couldn't be more out of touch on this if you tried. (IMO, anyway.) And those kids are not as mindless as you make them out to be ("Hey, that band got a really high score. That must mean their show and everything in it is cool!"). They require little assistance from the "adults" to tell them what they think is cool. Often times, what they think is cool isn't even stuff that's being talked about in this thread.

As for the rest, I'm curious. When, in all of competitive drum corps history, has a design trend taken the activity someplace new and then everybody decided to go back to the way it used to be? Has it ever happened? I'm trying to think of a major shift in design over the decades that was jettisoned in favor of what came before and I'm coming up empty. Anyone? Bueller?? 

Edited by seen-it-all
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting thread. Lots of perspectives here.  Some well-said stuff, some crazy stuff, some funny stuff, some "have you been listening or reading at all???" stuff. Sounds like Thanksgiving dinner with my family.  :laughing: Or just standard DCP.  :innocent:

If a band or corps has the money to spend on props, video screens, jet packs, whatever (personally, I'd like to see jet packs someday... :tongue:) then hey... have at it.  It's up to an organization as to how it uses its resources.  Heck, if I hit last night's lottery, my corps would have Ruth's Chris chefs running our food operation.  LOL

However... (isn't there always a however????  LOL)... my concern would be, and has been, the "arms race" aspect to all this.  The pressure to do this stuff to keep up, even if your group doesn't necessarily have the resources to do so. I'm not sure there's an answer to that, and I doubt there's a one size-fits-all "solution" to it. But it is a concern.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, seen-it-all said:

As for the rest, I'm curious. When, in all of competitive drum corps history, has a design trend taken the activity someplace new and then everybody decided to go back to the way it used to be? Has it ever happened? I'm trying to think of a major shift in design over the decades that was jettisoned in favor of what came before and I'm coming up empty. Anyone? Bueller?? 

Symmetric drill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, gcurrier said:

leave it to DCPI to have a bunch of old farts rip apart high school kids---this post is one reason DCPI is such a horrible place to come.  I dont know why I do it hoping to actually see anything positive or even somewhat informative.  

I watched the show live--was great--was not distracting to anyone over the age of 5 -- they sounded great too and have a real shot at winning.  If nothing else it was pretty original and no first try at a new direction is never perfect no matter which band or corps you think is the best in the universe, but they are experimenting.  Budget, Ill give you because that couldn't be cheap but people come on...you almost all always sound so sour about EVERYTHING here.  Your mothers should have taught you, if you dont have something nice to say.....

blow up all you want at this response because every time I come here I see this kind of crap that keeps me away for a good few months at least--hope you keep bringing new DCPIers in somehow tho--its here truly to support the marching arts which it needs especially now  

...can I get an 

AMEN!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, garfield said:

Do they really "dig" what they're seeing?  Or are they digging it because adult judges are rewarding those things and telling those performing kids what wins in "Cool!" land.

I'm significantly confident that, if drum corps judges told those same kids that analog, prop-less performances of musical and visual excellence can win without props or, even A&E!, band kids who are full of A&E would flock to drum corps and analog "DCI" would be Cool again.

Absolutely true.  We would not be here if music educators had no influence over what the students think is "cool".

Quote

Few would argue that the pendulum of the activity has swung wildly in favor of "anything goes" and "We'll judge what we see" (aka, excuses for unfinished shows), and it's reasonable that, similar to society, it might be time for drum corps to perform and compete under a different and, maybe, more stringent set of more-objective metrics.

I wish you were correct here, too.  But the advice I keep hearing (probably from you at some point, too) is "follow the money".

The manufacturers of musical instruments and the ever-expanding array of related equipment are not just swinging the pendulum... they are tipping the clock over.  Follow the money.  They have turned drum corps into their own traveling salesmen.  DCI might as well change the motto to "Marching Music's Manufacturer Showroom".  The back stands at DCI events are wallpapered with advertising banners, bought and paid for by these companies - oh, sorry - "corporate partners".  So is anything DCI puts on the web.  Corps identified as important to marketing plans are offered enough in the way of discounts, rental deals, donations, etc., to get them to use (and advertise) their product - or lobby for product introduction to drum corps via rule changes.  Numerous individual corps staffers, and even judges, are paid "endorsers" for specific manufacturers/products.  How this is not a disqualifying conflict of interest for judges, I will never understand.  I do understand how all this causes the proliferation of such equipment in the activity.

Once upon a time, drum corps was a budget-conscious activity run by adults who were mindful of the extremely limited financial sponsorship their activity had, compared to scholastic music.  Proponents of the sweeping equipment changes can congratulate themselves for increasing that sponsorship... but at considerable cost.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, MikeD said:

My guess is that for a marching band like Tarpon Springs, a LOT of the show design and operating budget comes from fund-raising by parents/kids, not the public school budget. 

BOA programs like this one have been well over 6 figures for a couple of decades now. They rely on serious hard core find raising. In some ways, the show is rather intriguing in some rather ironic directions- the signs saying that people see what they want to see or what they want them to see.... and at times ending up distracting the viewer totally from the fact kids are actually performing something even though they're staged to be clearly seen.

 

I'd thought of something like this.... but to be used in an extremely comedic way. Flashing "APPLAUD NOW" at certain points.... And flashing other pithy comments like "Obligatory Body Moves NOW!", and maybe even a "COKE REFRESHES!" or some fake sponsor message like on Prairie Home Companion.

 

As for effect..... How does one call it? At least BA's go-buggies were something that the performers had to perform with. They had to drive those things in formation... cue them.. and play while riding atop the daggone things. Something to take into consideration for sure. Loaded question- do the displays try and take the numbers out of the hands of the performers in one way or another? Serious question, and I think debatable. Would the program still have solid content without relying on the displays as a crutch? I'd hope so. At the BoA level, I'd hope and think adjudicators would call the Emperor stark naked if that was what they believed was happening.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

Absolutely true.  We would not be here if music educators had no influence over what the students think is "cool".

I wish you were correct here, too.  But the advice I keep hearing (probably from you at some point, too) is "follow the money".

The manufacturers of musical instruments and the ever-expanding array of related equipment are not just swinging the pendulum... they are tipping the clock over.  Follow the money.  They have turned drum corps into their own traveling salesmen.  DCI might as well change the motto to "Marching Music's Manufacturer Showroom".  The back stands at DCI events are wallpapered with advertising banners, bought and paid for by these companies - oh, sorry - "corporate partners".  So is anything DCI puts on the web.  Corps identified as important to marketing plans are offered enough in the way of discounts, rental deals, donations, etc., to get them to use (and advertise) their product - or lobby for product introduction to drum corps via rule changes.  Numerous individual corps staffers, and even judges, are paid "endorsers" for specific manufacturers/products.  How this is not a disqualifying conflict of interest for judges, I will never understand.  I do understand how all this causes the proliferation of such equipment in the activity.

Once upon a time, drum corps was a budget-conscious activity run by adults who were mindful of the extremely limited financial sponsorship their activity had, compared to scholastic music.  Proponents of the sweeping equipment changes can congratulate themselves for increasing that sponsorship... but at considerable cost.

Yes... but... even in the early 80's, even some DCA corps were getting some free percussion equipment and more. It's been there, maybe not on the scale it is... but it's been around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, seen-it-all said:

Wow. You couldn't be more out of touch on this if you tried. (IMO, anyway.) And those kids are not as mindless as you make them out to be ("Hey, that band got a really high score. That must mean their show and everything in it is cool!"). They require little assistance from the "adults" to tell them what they think is cool. Often times, what they think is cool isn't even stuff that's being talked about in this thread.

As for the rest, I'm curious. When, in all of competitive drum corps history, has a design trend taken the activity someplace new and then everybody decided to go back to the way it used to be? Has it ever happened? I'm trying to think of a major shift in design over the decades that was jettisoned in favor of what came before and I'm coming up empty. Anyone? Bueller?? 

I'm a 16 year old who got into drum corps just 2 years ago. I really wish there was more of a mix of these contemporary, prop filled shows, as well as more traditional shows. They are two very different types of entertainment, and I dont want either of them to be abandoned. But I'm also not going to act like I know what's best for the activity, because im still very new here.

Edited by CommanderCoconut
Clarification
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...