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1 hour ago, skevinp said:

Maybe they prefer to teach students less likely to be inculcated with the kind of arrogance and pomposity that considers much of the country inferior, as humility is an important factor in developing the kind of work ethic necessary to actually achieve great things?

:spitting:

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On 11/16/2018 at 7:52 AM, Quad Aces said:

You do get quite a bit of bands from outside the Midwest to attend Grand Nationals.  This year alone there are bands from Texas, North Carolina, Tennessee, South Carolina, Arkansas, Utah, Georgia, California, Florida, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Oregon.

Yes, but.

Consider how many bands at Grand Nationals were from Indiana or adjacent states...

Of 12 bands in Finals, 3 were from Indiana and 1 each were from Illinois and Ohio. That's 5.

(The rest divided up as follows: 2 were from Oklahoma, and 1 each were from Florida, Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas.)

Of 37 bands in Semifinals, 11 were from Indiana, 4 each were from Illinois and Ohio, and 2 each were from Kentucky and Michigan. That's 23.

(The rest: 3 from Oklahoma, 2 each from Missouri and Tennessee, and 1 each from Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah.)

Of 108 bands in Prelims, 33 were from Ohio, 14 each were from Indiana and Kentucky, 6 were from Michigan, and 5 were from Illinois. That's 72.

Expand out one more state and there were 8 from Tennessee, 4 from Missouri, 2 from Pennsylvania, and 1 each from Iowa, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

That's 89 out of 108 bands who hailed from within two states of Indiana.

(Here's how the rest fell out: 3 each from North Carolina, Oklahoma and South Carolina, 2 from Arkansas, and 1 each from California, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Mississippi, Oregon, Texas, and Utah.)

In other words, Grand Nationals is overwhelmingly a Midwest event, with a very modest dash of bands from other parts of the country.

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Maybe someone mentioned this already, but it's worth noting that this was the first time in a long time--more than 30 years?--that Marian Catholic high school (from Chicago Hts., IL) didn't make the Finals. That's more or less the marching band equivalent of Santa Clara Vanguard missing DCI Finals.

(I thought they'd qualify, actually. As usual, they played a super difficult music book. But the visuals were perhaps too easy, and the concept maybe a bit too strange this time around even for the judges.)

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6 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Yes, but.

Consider how many bands at Grand Nationals were from Indiana or adjacent states...

Of 12 bands in Finals, 3 were from Indiana and 1 each were from Illinois and Ohio. That's 5.

(The rest divided up as follows: 2 were from Oklahoma, and 1 each were from Florida, Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas.)

Of 37 bands in Semifinals, 11 were from Indiana, 4 each were from Illinois and Ohio, and 2 each were from Kentucky and Michigan. That's 23.

(The rest: 3 from Oklahoma, 2 each from Missouri and Tennessee, and 1 each from Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah.)

Of 108 bands in Prelims, 33 were from Ohio, 14 each were from Indiana and Kentucky, 6 were from Michigan, and 5 were from Illinois. That's 72.

Expand out one more state and there were 8 from Tennessee, 4 from Missouri, 2 from Pennsylvania, and 1 each from Iowa, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

That's 89 out of 108 bands who hailed from within two states of Indiana.

(Here's how the rest fell out: 3 each from North Carolina, Oklahoma and South Carolina, 2 from Arkansas, and 1 each from California, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Mississippi, Oregon, Texas, and Utah.)

In other words, Grand Nationals is overwhelmingly a Midwest event, with a very modest dash of bands from other parts of the country.

I'm not sure if this is an accurate analysis. Of course the "local bands"can attend annually while other bands from further away may attend every other or every fourth year

Perhaps taking a long view would provide a more accurate picture of attendance at BOA. Some local bands go every year - pumping up those #s

As far as "best of the best" I would argue that tends to be the most competitive competition each year - not every top band is there, but many are

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7 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Maybe someone mentioned this already, but it's worth noting that this was the first time in a long time--more than 30 years?--that Marian Catholic high school (from Chicago Hts., IL) didn't make the Finals. That's more or less the marching band equivalent of Santa Clara Vanguard missing DCI Finals.

(I thought they'd qualify, actually. As usual, they played a super difficult music book. But the visuals were perhaps too easy, and the concept maybe a bit too strange this time around even for the judges.)

I wanted to mention this, but wasn’t sure how to work it in to a DCI World Class discussion.

Marian Catholic has made Finals at Grand Nationals for 34 years in a row (up until this year when they came in 15th), while winning 7 times (three of which were in a row).

The streak of 34 years in a row making Finals, considering there are about 100 of the best bands in the country that start out in Prelims, is a streak that is unparalleled in any organized activity.  Factor in that they are a private school with the high cost of a Catholic education (I don’t believe any of the Finalist bands this year are private schools), and lower enrollment and budget compared to their competition as a result, and it is even more amazing.

Marian’s enrollment I believe is a little over 1000, while this year’s Grand Nationals Champion, Carmel High School from IN, is about 5000.  Marian’s tuition is probably close to $10,000/year, while Carmel’s is free.  So it becomes difficult to ask Marian’s parents to contribute more financially to their children’s band activities.  I can only guess at Carmel’s budget, and would say that it easily is nowhere near Marian’s.  Someone suggested that these top national public band programs’ budgets could easily be in the $250k/year range.  Suffice it to say that Marian probably won’t be using 10 giant video screens any time soon in their shows.

Greg Bimm, the director at Marian for all 34 of those years (and more) is a legend and a master at what he does.  He does have a couple of assistants as well, which are brilliant in their own right.  One of Greg’s past assistants that he had for a while left to take another high-profile national job at Wando High School in South Carolina - this year Wando came in 6th.  

Congratulations to Marian for being one of the (and possibly the) best band program in the country - because their success isn’t limited to just marching either - for all these years.

Edited by Quad Aces
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23 hours ago, George Dixon said:

I'm not sure if this is an accurate analysis. Of course the "local bands"can attend annually while other bands from further away may attend every other or every fourth year

Perhaps taking a long view would provide a more accurate picture of attendance at BOA. Some local bands go every year - pumping up those #s

As far as "best of the best" I would argue that tends to be the most competitive competition each year - not every top band is there, but many are

I agree - this is a small sample size, and wasn’t done in a “Texas” year.  Being a non-Texas year this year, you will probably see a number of bands from Texas (Hebron, Flower Mound, Ronald Regan, LD Bell, The Woodlands, etc.) make Finals next year, as well as a number of bands from Texas make Semifinals.

To do this more accurately, you would need to take these “non-off years” into account.

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Part of the reason you see so many Midwest bands is that they have the larger competition units. Very few bands in the NE are the 200-300 member behemoths that dominate. Those bands that are that big in PA, for instance usually avoid competing like the plague. Very few bands in NJ even approach that size even with the large school districts.

 

BoA's classes are based on school size as well. The ideal band is something like a 300 member band from a 600 student school, and I know a few of those exist or at least did at one time. that also kills prospects of NE schools doing well in that circuit. Schools in NJ, may have a 70 member total band with a 2000 student HS, and that ain't gonna cut it.

 

To do BoA, you need numbers. Lots of kids, and big money to set up the infrastructure.

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Logistics and finances are probably the most common reasons as to why some groups (who would otherwise be very competitive) don’t go to Nationals all that frequently.  (I know, I know... duh.)

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7 hours ago, Quad Aces said:

there are about 100 of the best bands in the country that start out in Prelims,

Know a couple of those that went, and they aren't some of the best bands in the US.  The two that readily came to mind when I looked are pretty pedestrian when they have shown up at the regional circuit contests out this way. Once scored mid 50's at the BoA level, the other Mid 60's, which equates to a mid-low 80's number in the regional circuits out this way, which is what the were getting when the one participated, which was respectable but not very earth-shaking.

 

Both finished below 80th place, and I know there are some bands out this way that would beat them handily that have nothing to do with the BoA scene. Now, the top end of the pile? yeah the cream of the crop represents some incredible stuff. At the lower end? Maybe where they're from they're earth shakers on a very local scene.

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8 hours ago, Quad Aces said:

I wanted to mention this, but wasn’t sure how to work it in to a DCI World Class discussion.

Marian Catholic has made Finals at Grand Nationals for 34 years in a row (up until this year when they came in 15th), while winning 7 times (three of which were in a row).

The streak of 34 years in a row making Finals, considering there are about 100 of the best bands in the country that start out in Prelims, is a streak that is unparalleled in any organized activity.  Factor in that they are a private school with the high cost of a Catholic education (I don’t believe any of the Finalist bands this year are private schools), and lower enrollment and budget compared to their competition as a result, and it is even more amazing.

Marian’s enrollment I believe is a little over 1000, while this year’s Grand Nationals Champion, Carmel High School from IN, is about 5000.  Marian’s tuition is probably close to $10,000/year, while Carmel’s is free.  So it becomes difficult to ask Marian’s parents to contribute more financially to their children’s band activities.  I can only guess at Carmel’s budget, and would say that it easily is nowhere near Marian’s.  Someone suggested that these top national public band programs’ budgets could easily be in the $250k/year range.  Suffice it to say that Marian probably won’t be using 10 giant video screens any time soon in their shows.

Greg Bimm, the director at Marian for all 34 of those years (and more) is a legend and a master at what he does.  He does have a couple of assistants as well, which are brilliant in their own right.  One of Greg’s past assistants that he had for a while left to take another high-profile national job at Wando High School in South Carolina - this year Wando came in 6th.  

Congratulations to Marian for being one of the (and possibly the) best band program in the country - because their success isn’t limited to just marching either - for all these years.

What has been done at Marian Catholic is nothing short of amazing.

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