Tarpon Springs - Digital Screens

[Tim K]

I would think if you wanted to have a true Grand National champion, it would have to held at a time when schools could participate without missing too much class time, which would be in the summer, long after the competitive season has ended. This would be unlikely for so many reasons, not the least of which would be cost. That being said, while there may be some excellent bands that cannot compete each year, those that seem to win are worthy competitors, at least from the videos I see, usually on this site or YouTube.

One thing I do enjoy about finals being during the school year. For the bands that have to travel, it probably means a minimum of three days away from school, perhaps more. I like the thought of the band getting more time off than the football team, especially if it’s one of the schools we hear about that gets a hard time for their show being too long, have no access to the football team except at half time, and the like.

[Ghost]

7 minutes ago, Tim K said:

I would think if you wanted to have a true Grand National champion, it would have to held at a time when schools could participate without missing too much class time, which would be in the summer, long after the competitive season has ended. This would be unlikely for so many reasons, not the least of which would be cost.  

DCI would have a big seat at that reason table.

[Tim K]

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Quad Aces said:

I wanted to mention this, but wasn’t sure how to work it in to a DCI World Class discussion.

Marian Catholic has made Finals at Grand Nationals for 34 years in a row (up until this year when they came in 15th), while winning 7 times (three of which were in a row).

The streak of 34 years in a row making Finals, considering there are about 100 of the best bands in the country that start out in Prelims, is a streak that is unparalleled in any organized activity.  Factor in that they are a private school with the high cost of a Catholic education (I don’t believe any of the Finalist bands this year are private schools), and lower enrollment and budget compared to their competition as a result, and it is even more amazing.

Marian’s enrollment I believe is a little over 1000, while this year’s Grand Nationals Champion, Carmel High School from IN, is about 5000.  Marian’s tuition is probably close to $10,000/year, while Carmel’s is free.  So it becomes difficult to ask Marian’s parents to contribute more financially to their children’s band activities.  I can only guess at Carmel’s budget, and would say that it easily is nowhere near Marian’s.  Someone suggested that these top national public band programs’ budgets could easily be in the $250k/year range.  Suffice it to say that Marian probably won’t be using 10 giant video screens any time soon in their shows.

Greg Bimm, the director at Marian for all 34 of those years (and more) is a legend and a master at what he does.  He does have a couple of assistants as well, which are brilliant in their own right.  One of Greg’s past assistants that he had for a while left to take another high-profile national job at Wando High School in South Carolina - this year Wando came in 6th.  

Congratulations to Marian for being one of the (and possibly the) best band program in the country - because their success isn’t limited to just marching either - for all these years.

 Santa Clara has been in each finals night of DCI, Phantom and Blue Devils have made finals since 1974, though Cavies missed a few years prior to 1979, they have been continuous finalists since 1979 and Cadets since 1980, which are impressive streaks, though I wish we had the days of 100 or more corps in prelims. 

I do not know Marion Catholic’s specific situation, I will say their success pleases me but does not surprise me. Catholic schools can be very limitedduevto budget challenges. Very few are affluent and since the growth of charter schools, recruiting is getting to be more of a challenge. Catholic schools that thrive often do two things: they find a strength to build on, and push the importance of excellence and giving it your all. This is not to say that you do not find these attributes in public schools, private schools, or charter schools, because you do, but it is something common in Catholic schools.

What does make Marion interesting, is many Catholic schools have amazing choral programs, excellent music ensembles, and drama programs that put on phenomenal musicals. There are schools with bands, but there are not that many that field marching bands. There are some, and this may be something that changes in the next few years. Catholic schools are growing in the south, and it is not uncommon for schools in the south to require children in elementary schools to have at least one year of playing an instrument, so high schools could build on what is started, but two of the oldest drum corps, Cadets and Boston Crusaders both began in Catholic parishes, Boston had its CYO program with so many drum corps, not to mention bands and drill teams, and many of the corps that hailed from New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and Pennsylvania all had Catholic parish roots.

[N.E. Brigand]

48 minutes ago, Tim K said:

I do not know Marion Catholic’s specific situation, I will say their success pleases me but does not surprise me. Catholic schools can be very limited due to budget challenges. Very few are affluent and since the growth of charter schools, recruiting is getting to be more of a challenge. Catholic schools that thrive often do two things: they find a strength to build on, and push the importance of excellence and giving it your all. This is not to say that you do not find these attributes in public schools, private schools, or charter schools, because you do, but it is something common in Catholic schools.

It's certainly true here in Ohio that almost none of the Catholic high schools have very strong marching band programs. The best is surely Archbishop Alter, who I'd put at roughly 25th among the state's competing high school bands (followed distantly by Carroll and St. Edward, who'd fall in the 60th-70th range most years).

(One little note: it's "Marian" with an A rather than an O.)

[N.E. Brigand]

2 hours ago, Tim K said:

I would think if you wanted to have a true Grand National champion, it would have to held at a time when schools could participate without missing too much class time, which would be in the summer, long after the competitive season has ended. This would be unlikely for so many reasons, not the least of which would be cost. That being said, while there may be some excellent bands that cannot compete each year, those that seem to win are worthy competitors, at least from the videos I see, usually on this site or YouTube.

One thing I do enjoy about finals being during the school year. For the bands that have to travel, it probably means a minimum of three days away from school, perhaps more. I like the thought of the band getting more time off than the football team, especially if it’s one of the schools we hear about that gets a hard time for their show being too long, have no access to the football team except at half time, and the like.

AS you note, it's pretty much impossible. Probably the only way to have a true national championship, besides what you note, would be for BOA to have a regional playoff system -- and then to pay the travel costs for the winning band from each region, perhaps on a scaled system based on distance. Obviously they can't afford to do that!

[BigW]

I recall a very good article in The Instrumentalist magazine written by the Marian Catholic director which explains one of the massive cornerstones of the program- their Concert band, Wind Ensemble, Symphonic Band... whatever they call it.

 

The band at that time had a roughly 4 year rotation of concert literature. The Director explained it helped save a ton of money in music purchased and that he felt the students got a very well rounded experience of some of the finest works written for the medium in their 4 years at Marian Catholic. He said sometimes pieces were added and changed to freshen up the rotation and include newer classic works when discovered.

 

I looked at the rotation at that time and it was basically a reasonable chunk of the  various works on this list:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concert_band_literature

 

Jaw dropping stuff they perform there during the school year. Basically the equivalent of a classical education in Wind Band.

 

From what I know, most of these top BoA units are quite serious about their concert organizations. If you can play that stuff at a competent level... you can play whatever whomever arranges for you at the drop dead level that they do on the field.

 

Very hard to convince some school districts that the hub of the program is the concert medium. Without developing the musicianship there, you're hamstrung on the field, period.

Edited November 19, 2018 by BigW

[Tim K]

7 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

(One little note: it's "Marian" with an A rather than an O.)

That I should have spotted!

One of the nuns I had in 7th grade would have had a field day if she saw that error. She often said “writing should be concise and precise.” I’m often a bit wordy so concise is out, and now I’m not precise either!

[N.E. Brigand]

11 hours ago, BigW said:

I recall a very good article in The Instrumentalist magazine written by the Marian Catholic director which explains one of the massive cornerstones of the program- their Concert band, Wind Ensemble, Symphonic Band... whatever they call it. [...]

From what I know, most of these top BoA units are quite serious about their concert organizations. If you can play that stuff at a competent level... you can play whatever whomever arranges for you at the drop dead level that they do on the field.

Very hard to convince some school districts that the hub of the program is the concert medium. Without developing the musicianship there, you're hamstrung on the field, period.

Good point. Here in Ohio, the best band pound-for-pound (that is to say, at an individual level), is quite likely the Berne Union band. In my opinion, the only reason they can't compete with the state's top programs...

...is that they have 60-70 members most years. From a high school with a total enrollment of about 275. And the marching band includes 20 or more 6th-8th grade students.

I note that their director says in this video (somewhat dated but well constructed) about their music program:

"I've always felt that great concert ensembles are the key to having a solid band program, because that's where the most student learning takes place, in those concert bands, and that foundation will in turn give you a solid marching program. We even had this painted on the wall outside the band room."

And I was struck by three points that differed from my school experience (in the 1980s in a district far removed from B.U.), all being more intense than what I knew:

(1) Fifth-grade band rehearse twice weekly.

(2) Sixth- and seventh-grade band rehearse daily.

(3) High school concert band rehearses daily even during marching season.

[MikeD]

18 hours ago, BigW said:

I recall a very good article in The Instrumentalist magazine written by the Marian Catholic director which explains one of the massive cornerstones of the program- their Concert band, Wind Ensemble, Symphonic Band... whatever they call it.

Very hard to convince some school districts that the hub of the program is the concert medium. Without developing the musicianship there, you're hamstrung on the field, period.

It has always been my philosophy that the concert program is the core of the band program. All other ensembles are spokes that come off of that hub. Marching band, jazz ensembles, percussion ensembles, musical pit orchestra, etc.....any and all. You see more and more schools in NJ where the marching band has become a volunteer after-school activity, like any other club or sport. The last band I taught for 24 years (as an adjunct staff member) was run that way since the 70's, actually. The school has 3 concert bands totally 300 kids or so, but only 50 or so musicians sign up for marching band. The plus side is that those are the students who want to march and put in the time/effort needed to be successful. Band classes during the day are concert band only, right from day one of the school year.  Kids work on their marching band music during day on their own, but it is not part of the concert band curriculum or student grade.

[Highwaydude]

Since Marian Catholic is in discussion. I lived in the Chicago area for many years and would attended the Chicagoland area Marching Band Contests. What is also good to see is Lincoln-Way in New Lenox continue to improve their music program. They placed higher than Marian in St Louis but I noticed LW didn't attended BOA in Indy.