Electronics question

[Jeff Ream]

15 hours ago, deftguy said:

It is in the best interest of any corps using electronic to have a backup source of power. I think it is foolish for them to solely rely on the power of any stadium without a backup source. 

this. Even in the band world, not all stadiums have power access, or if weather gets wonky, stadium power may be an issue. Have a backup ready. It's just like drum heads...one blows in warmups, do you just let it go or do you have spares?

[seen-it-all]

The only time I saw a major show stopped while a corps was in the middle of performing was the 1996 DCI Semi-finals in Orlando (it may have been quarterfinals but I'm pretty sure it was semis). There was a pretty major storm blowing through, one of those mid-afternoon Florida specials, and this corps never should have been allowed to start their show to begin with IMO. By the time their opener was finished, there were shakos tumbling across the field and the corps was pretty clearly having major performance issues dealing with the wind and rain and what not. They stopped the performance right then and there DCI did, I presume), there was an extensive delay afterward, and then they were allowed to start from the top when the show began again. And good thing for them as they were fighting for a finalist spot (and finished 12th IIRC).

[MGCpimpOtimp]

In this DCI rulebook it talks about the power that SHOULD be provided by the venue (often times this spec is not followed, especially at smaller shows). The rulebook also mentions that corps use house power at their own risk, and that in event of a failure, no second performance shall be granted.

That being said, almost all groups use their own power (generators), and most have the sensitive equipment (mixers, laptops, synths) on their own battery backups just in case.

[Bob984]

4 minutes ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:

In this DCI rulebook it talks about the power that SHOULD be provided by the venue (often times this spec is not followed, especially at smaller shows). The rulebook also mentions that corps use house power at their own risk, and that in event of a failure, no second performance shall be granted.

That being said, almost all groups use their own power (generators), and most have the sensitive equipment (mixers, laptops, synths) on their own battery backups just in case.

Thanks for this......it clearly spells it out, and that no second performance is granted, no matter what.  Some corps have chosen to include an extensive amount of electronics in their shows......obviously, a failure could be catastrophic...........some have indicated about generators, back-ups, etc......however, even when that happens, usually power amps will "trip", even just for a short time period until they reset.....or worse, a fuse blows somewhere, and no generator is going to fix that.  I do have mixed emotions about "oh, well" being the response  if the power line provided by the venue would fail during a performance.

The band circuit that I judge for indicates that power is to be supplied to the front sideline, and those running the show are responsible to make sure that line is run, live, and working.  At a show that I was on (small high school stadium),   the first 2 bands didn't use electronics.  Band 3 comes on, and the power is dead.  The director clearly indicates that no power is in the line, and he is upset, because he has a small band with no tuba, and thus his electric bass player is a critical element of his show.  I stopped the show for around 10 minutes, we linked two one hundred foot power cords together (fortunately the school had them) and ran power from the press box to the sideline.  A little funky, but it worked.  Problem solved.

Way back in either 1981 or 1982, a corps was on the field at prelims in Montreal.  Approximately 1/3 of the way into their show, a microphone started very loud and very bad feedback in the stadium PA system.  For some reason, it was not being attended to.   It GREATLY effected the sound of the corps and was very disturbing.  The director went over to Pesceone and BEGGED for the problem to be fixed and for the corps to be allowed to start over.  Pesceone refused, saying that they had to stay on schedule (and I heard this come out of his mouth).....the corps I believe came in 32nd.   I have wondered to this day what would have happened if that happened much later in the show when someone was either battling for finals or battling to win, and they demanded to start over.

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, Mello Dude said:

I'm surprised more corps aren't using a UPS in front of their equipment.  What should be provided at all venues is a backup power cord and a grounding bar.  Personally it would be a good idea to practice without electronics (plan b show) if it's raining etc OR write a show that has enough depth of instrumentation to survive without power.  Corps should be operating these generators safely at practice also.  The lack of grounding has been noticed.

 

 

A consumer grade UPS might give you 10 more minutes of home computing, but not nearly as much time powering a corps amplification/electronics rig.

I heard one corps using a UPS somewhere this summer.  They plugged stadium power into their rig, powered up and ran off, and within two seconds I heard the exact same beeping my UPS does at home.  Only theirs quit before they even made it back to do the sound check a minute or two later.

[rpbobcat]

45 minutes ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:

That being said, almost all groups use their own power (generators), and most have the sensitive equipment (mixers, laptops, synths) on their own battery backups just in case.

That's interesting about battery backup.

I was wondering how corps dealt with sensitive electronics.

Unless you have a really high end generator,the voltage fluctuations can cause havoc with electronics.

We call it " dirty power".

It was a big problem after Hurricane Sandy.

People went out and bought these $99.00 generators.

They're o.k. for things like a basic refrigerator.

Thing is a lot of people hooked up computers,laptops,flat screen  T.V.s

Saw a lot of those things at the curb.

 

 

 

[Mello Dude]

17 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

A consumer grade UPS might give you 10 more minutes of home computing, but not nearly as much time powering a corps amplification/electronics rig.

I heard one corps using a UPS somewhere this summer.  They plugged stadium power into their rig, powered up and ran off, and within two seconds I heard the exact same beeping my UPS does at home.  Only theirs quit before they even made it back to do the sound check a minute or two later.

 

There are a ton of UPS's out there that can handle these systems.  Absolutely criminal IMHO if you aren't using them in front of your electronics off a generator (that should be grounded).  I will keep emphasizing this point.   If your corps doesn't have someone that knows what is going on with power off a generator for electronics, you should.

[cixelsyd]

If they could reliably power the rig for a whole show with a UPS nestled in the sound board cabinet, then no one would need to bring these separate gas-powered generators with them.

[MGCpimpOtimp]

5 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

That's interesting about battery backup.

I was wondering how corps dealt with sensitive electronics.

Unless you have a really high end generator,the voltage fluctuations can cause havoc with electronics.

We call it " dirty power".

It was a big problem after Hurricane Sandy.

People went out and bought these $99.00 generators.

They're o.k. for things like a basic refrigerator.

Thing is a lot of people hooked up computers,laptops,flat screen  T.V.s

Saw a lot of those things at the curb.

 

 

 

Very important to get a generator with an inverter on it, which is what almost all of the corps are using. In addition to that, most are also using power conditioners (although some use the cheap ones that are just glorified power strips).

4 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

 

There are a ton of UPS's out there that can handle these systems.  Absolutely criminal IMHO if you aren't using them in front of your electronics off a generator (that should be grounded).  I will keep emphasizing this point.   If your corps doesn't have someone that knows what is going on with power off a generator for electronics, you should.

Most people use backups for synths/mixers etc, but don't put their amps/speakers on battery backup because it would drain the batteries extremely quickly (amongst other reasons that's a terrible idea).

[JimF-LowBari]

20 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

That's interesting about battery backup.

I was wondering how corps dealt with sensitive electronics.

Unless you have a really high end generator,the voltage fluctuations can cause havoc with electronics.

We call it " dirty power".

It was a big problem after Hurricane Sandy.

People went out and bought these $99.00 generators.

They're o.k. for things like a basic refrigerator.

Thing is a lot of people hooked up computers,laptops,flat screen  T.V.s

Saw a lot of those things at the curb.

 

 

 

Wonder how power surges, etc affects mb/dc electronics. With crappy power supplies (including backups) bad power might fry for good. 

Shades of BITD at work seeing a 100K Unix mini computer plugged in using a non grounded electronic cord. “WTH you guys get this at KMART? Powering this off until you get the crap together “.

Edited October 30, 2018 by JimF-LowBari