YEA suspends operations of Cadets 2 and Lays off 9 Employees

[Liahona]

55 minutes ago, karuna said:

they should have kept C² and put Cadets on a one year hiatus.  

I do not agree with this idea.  A one year hiatus for Cadets would be a financial disaster for the organization.  You don't take a year off with a such a storied history as The Cadets.  There is more to it than just the RAW dollars and cents savings.

Even after the fire for BAC in 1973(?) and the embezzlement of corps funds in 1983(?) Boston did not take a year off. Even when the corps was financially insolvent, they went out on the field under the banner of "Boston" until they paid off the debt to reclaim the Boston Crusaders brand.  I am afraid if they had taken "a one year hiatus" they wouldn't be here today.  Not fielding a corps has serious repercussions on all levels IMO. I can't recall too many corps that have survived after taking a year or more off.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Liahona

[Tim K]

1 hour ago, karuna said:

 

It's a valid question.  Cadets have been leaning heavily on C² in the past few seasons .  While those kids (most likely) will be available this year,  next season they most likely won't.  

Another interesting question:  where do those C²  kids go?  Do they march DCA at all or just look to audition in Open Class/ Lower Tier World class corps?  

If YEA were really interested in saving some dollars,  they should have kept C² and put Cadets on a one year hiatus.  That would save far more dollars in a single season than 3 seasons of C² suspension and would have kept that recruiting base alive.  

My guess would be most young people who march with C2 first then Cadets either we’re not ready to march with Cadets or could not commit to a full tour. 

The top priority of YEA is Cadets. This is not to say the kids in C2 or the corps do not matter, of course they do, but YEA became the umbrella for Cadets, US Bands a way to bankroll Cadets, C2 was a much later addition. Suspending Cadets for a year would not save any money. There would be very few donors and sponsorships for C2, not to mention the number of shows Cadets compete in each year and revenues from performance fees. Remember too, the fact that parents did not pull minors and older marching members did not flee in numbers is very different than the aftermath of  most youth activities today when faced with a similar situation, the more we learn about last season and the challenges Cadets faced, again it was surviving against the odds. I don’t see that happening if Cadets did not march in 2019. Suspension for a year would kill the corps. If it reorganized it would be a shell of itself. 

[ykw]

4 hours ago, FTNK said:

Is this going to annihilate recruitment?

I think a better question is:  Does eliminating C2 (a corps with majority local HS members) improve relationships between local HS directors and USBands?

Perhaps YEA needs to move their HQ to Florida or Texas.

[BigW]

Talked to a C2 alum today. I read some mixed feelings and some sadness and frustration. I think Jeff's point about the corps kind of being thought of as some red-headed stepchild within YEA has at least some reasonable amount of validity.

 

All that being said, some are going to audition for Cadets and give it a go. Why not if they feel it's a viable option they want to try?

 

I wished that person and I wish everyone out there that whatever happens, they land in some place where they'll feel wanted and love their experience. Westshore was that place for me... even with the crazy meter off the scale. Everyone has different needs, talents, goals, desires. I believe and hope everyone affected will find the right place. I then hope I can swap stories afterwards and learn from it. 

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, karuna said:

 

It's a valid question.  Cadets have been leaning heavily on C² in the past few seasons .  While those kids (most likely) will be available this year,  next season they most likely won't.  

Another interesting question:  where do those C²  kids go?  Do they march DCA at all or just look to audition in Open Class/ Lower Tier World class corps?  

If YEA were really interested in saving some dollars,  they should have kept C² and put Cadets on a one year hiatus.  That would save far more dollars in a single season than 3 seasons of C² suspension and would have kept that recruiting base alive.  

you pull C1, you kill it forever. Eventually the C2 stuff will blow over. You pull C1 out, and the feeding frenzy really comes alive.

[BigW]

2 hours ago, ykw said:

I think a better question is:  Does eliminating C2 (a corps with majority local HS members) improve relationships between local HS directors and USBands?

I think this is a very fair question, though I believe the answer is that it's largely irrelevant.

 

From observations of many, many directors since my HS time to now.... as a HS performer.. Corps member, as a  Band Director myself, staff member, and so on....

 

What do they want in a competition circuit?

 

In no particular order:

 

Do they think they can win in said circuit (The cynic in me says this one is the Number One for some directors with massive egos or ones with massive pressure from parents or administration)? Do they think they're being treated fairly? Is the input from the adjudicators they get worthwhile and useful? Does the input help the students and the program grow educationally? Is the sandbox in that circuit large or small enough to keep everyone happy and give real challenge to their programs and enable them to be relevant and not get kicked to the curb and enable growth and development of the program's potential?? Those are what I observe and the kids of comments I hear, and ones I thought about as well.

 

 Note that none of those main concerns have anything to really do with Drum Corps. It really doesn't matter of their kids are or were in a certain corps or not. Some directors and programs encourage their students to just go to any corps with a clean and good rep for the learning and growth, where doesn't matter as long as they have a positive experience and are happy. (Had a student march Cadets and Blast for instance) Others don't want their kids in any corps for various reasons which I have a serious disconnect with, but it happens.

 

 

 

 

[Tim K]

42 minutes ago, Liahona said:

I do not agree with this idea.  A one year hiatus for Cadets would be a financial disaster for the organization.  You don't take a year off with a such a storied history as The Cadets.  There is more to it than just the RAW dollars and cents savings.

Even after the fire for BAC in 1973(?) and the embezzlement of corps funds in 1983(?) Boston did not take a year off. Even when the corps was financially insolvent, they went out on the field under the banner of "Boston" until they paid off the debt to reclaim the Boston Crusaders brand.  I am afraid if they had taken "a one year hiatus" they wouldn't be here today.  Not fielding a corps has serious repercussions on all levels IMO. I can't recall too many corps that have survived after taking a year or more off.

In my opinion, you’re correct about there most likely being no BAC today if the corps did not field a corps in its struggling years. in 1979 people thought the small corps would be a one year problem, especially where they were good. In 1980 people again admired BAC’s pluck, but the corps slipped to 25th. When Defenders and North Star disbanded in 1982 and BAC had its challenges, the court of public opinion decided BAC would be next and when 27th left the field after 1986, the consensus of many locals was that Massachusetts did not have the desire for drum corps. I know that not everyone who marched with BAC was a local, and this is an extremely broad post with lots of specifics not included, but given the climate in the Boston area in the early to mid 80’s, if they did not field a corps it is unlikely there would be a BAC today. Another important factor is continuous tradition. If BAC did not field for a year, would those who marched prior to the hiatus year consider it the same corps? Though this has died down a bit, ten, fifteen years ago you heard folks say bring back 27th, Bridgemen, Muchachos, Velvet Knights, alums were often quick to point out it would not be the same corps.

 

[karuna]

6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

you pull C1, you kill it forever. Eventually the C2 stuff will blow over. You pull C1 out, and the feeding frenzy really comes alive.

It's the infamous rock and hard place.   

Pull C²  (for how many years?)  and destroy what has become a large part of your recruiting base.   Significantly less talent flows into corps.  Donations sag because of downward placement.  Death spiral of placement and donations.

Pull C¹ for a year and risk armageddon but put your financial house in order tout suite.  Cadets are (by a huge margin) the biggest expense of YEA.  It bleeds every other program dry every year.  Talent from C² will still be there when you return after a season.  Would the alums really bolt?  Not sure that's true now.  They might rally to the cause now that Hopmeister is out of the picture.  

I'm not sure which I'd chose -- neither are very attractive options.  But make no mistake -- Cadets have relied on that C² talent for several years now.  Pulling that out will have an impact in 2020 and beyond.   

[George Dixon]

I wonder if 1. Improving the USB band relationships & 2. Ability to trim YEA office staffing played more into the C2 decision than did C2s actual deficit

Even just from a $$ standpoint - eliminating 9 staff from the office is a boatload of $$ saved, much more than C2 deficit

[Tim K]

7 hours ago, ykw said:

I think a better question is:  Does eliminating C2 (a corps with majority local HS members) improve relationships between local HS directors and USBands?

Perhaps YEA needs to move their HQ to Florida or Texas.

I don’t think I have ever seen stats of the age of C2 members, but while it had many high school students, was it a majority? The only marching member of C2 I knew at the time he marched with them was in high school, but those I’ve talked to at shows were older. This is hardly anything more than anecdotal, but given the number of competitors in US bands, i’m not sure it would have a huge impact on directors opinions. 

 

10 minutes ago, karuna said:

It's the infamous rock and hard place.   

Pull C²  (for how many years?)  and destroy what has become a large part of your recruiting base.   Significantly less talent flows into corps.  Donations sag because of downward placement.  Death spiral of placement and donations.

Pull C¹ for a year and risk armageddon but put your financial house in order tout suite.  Cadets are (by a huge margin) the biggest expense of YEA.  It bleeds every other program dry every year.  Talent from C² will still be there when you return after a season.  Would the alums really bolt?  Not sure that's true now.  They might rally to the cause now that Hopmeister is out of the picture.  

I'm not sure which I'd chose -- neither are very attractive options.  But make no mistake -- Cadets have relied on that C² talent for several years now.  Pulling that out will have an impact in 2020 and beyond.   

Again, what are the numbers of C2 kids that end up marching with Cadets? Look at posts from a year ago at this time, GH was being criticized for trying to lure kids away from Bluecoats, remember the “Are you tired of being blue?” fliers, his long time rival of Crown, and his newest recruiting nemesis, Boston Crusaders. The criticism was he was missing talent right in front of him with C2.

C2 has only been in existence since 2012, Cadets greatest shows to date are prior to 2012. Prior to the founding of C2 in 2012, the lure of Cadets was high placement in finals, great staff, and innovative shows. The elephant in the room was the former director. So to recruit without C2, Cadets needs to place higher with an innovative show and top staff in 2019.