“Failure to Protect”

[MikeD]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

i know they have been in recently. could have sworn they were there in 2013.

 

But...you said DCI STRICTLY controls what happens and who performs at their shows.

 

Dan was notified in 2012. and a few posts back I gave you 3 DCI shows Kilties performed at, and he was a member of the corps. So really, you can parse as many participles as you wish, the bottom line is from 11-13 Morgan Larson was a member of the Kilties, performing in DCi shows. in 2012, Dan Acheson was informed, as well as all of DCA. Nothing happened and he continued performing in DCI and DCA shows in 2013.

 

and DCI allowed it, despite the strict control over who and what performs and happens at their shows.

 

So, you do realize Dan dropped the ball. And if he did actually notified the board, they dropped the ball. I'm sure parents of kids in those corps would have loved to have known a registered sex offender appeared at the same show as their kids did.

Does DCI control who the members are of a corps that appears at a show? Do they have lists of membership...and did they in 2013, more to the point? It was incumbent on the Kilties and any, other organizations to keep people like Larsen far away from their organizations, as members, staff, volunteers, etc. This exercise seems to be a prime case of 20/20 hindsight. 

What I hope is that the past experiences are used to make the current and future safe within DCI (and elsewhere), not just engaging in pages of "gotcha" on DCP.

 

[garfield]

6 minutes ago, MikeD said:

Actually, DCXMUSEUM does show shows with the Kilties that line up pretty well with Jeff's list, just fyi. 

Yes, actually exactly.  And I'm thankful for their efforts, truly.  And I mean that.

 

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

so Cavies, a board member, didn't report they lost a venue because of a drum corps show happened with a nationally registered sex offender in it, one that most likely competed in shows with them as well as other DCI member corps? Oh and remember Dan was emailed about Larson too?

 

Were they outraged when he performed with JOBE in Indy at the HOF ceremony and semis? or had they forgotten by 2015? In fact, odds are Larsen performed ina  Cavies run show in 2013 with the Kilties......the season after Dan and all of DCA was informed.

 

You can try and spin it all you want...Dan Acheson was notified that a nationally registered sex offender was a member of a DCI affiliate corps, and for 2012 and 2013 performed in DCi banner shows, and they did not one #### thing about it. In fact the only thing done was people tied to the Kilties tried to threaten the whistle blowers legally.

 

You can't really defend it. Oh I am sure you'll continue to try as will others, but the bottom line is DCI WAS NOTIFIED AN AFFILIATE MEMBER CORPS HAD A MEMBER ON THE NATIONAL SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY PERFORMING AT SOME OF THEIR SHOWS WITH THEIR MEMBER CORPS.

 

you cannot defend it. Not one iota. To try and do so otherwise makes you as much of an enabler as they were. One can enable by willingly ignore it.

The only thing I am defending right now is the concept of getting your facts straight.  (And that needs a lot of defending today.)

I have no idea why you are digging your heels in so deep on the fallacy that Kilties had some kind of "membership" in DCI.  Why does that matter?  Are you only interested in keeping predators out of member corps?  I think all DCI participating groups should be predator-free.

Anyway, there is no membership in DCI for all-age groups.  That has never been an option for the senior Kilties.  That was the famous sticking point that kept the DCM/DCI merger from happening circa 2003, ultimately driving the Midwestern all-age corps to join DCA.  All the DCI bylaws, policies and procedures are posted on DCI.org, so you can see for yourself.  Policy for participation of all-age corps in DCI events is defined in the Policies and Procedures Manual, Appendix 116 (the 37th page of the online version). 

 

Now can we lay that argument to rest, and get back to the larger issue - keeping predators out of drum corps?

Speaking of which, if you want to keep Morgan Larson out of DCI, you need either a DCI policy or a state/federal law that prevents predators of his ilk from getting in.  It pains me to say this (and I am only the messenger here - try not to shoot the messenger again), but it is not categorically illegal, and DCI did not have a policy to prevent it.  Even now, written policy is too vague to spell out an absolute, lifetime ban for someone who did what Morgan Larson did.  That needs to change, by next month.

When it comes to convicted felony-level sexual predators, to "deny or limit" participation is not good enough.  They should be banned for life.  Not running a corps; not on staff; not judging; not marching; not sneaking in the side door with an exhibition ensemble; not being granted backstage access of any kind; even wearing one of those VIP fan passes.

[Bluzes]

3 minutes ago, MikeD said:

What do you mean by this comment? School systems have their own vetting processes for every person who works with students, including volunteers, bus drivers, cafeteria aides, teachers, subs, etc. They have nothing at all to do with drum corps or any outside activity, be it music, sports, theater, SAT/ACT prep classes, whatever. 

My comment is my comment. I feel for the victims that were molested while in high school just as much as I would feel for the victims if it happened on tour. Both the schools and drum corps vetting is failing. Why all the nipping when I try to expand the liability to the schools? Explain googling tainted school teachers it brings up 100's of thousands of articles. The school staffs awareness, willingness to speak up is in question. Properly training their staffs to identify and speak up when warning signs occur, taking complains seriously is all in question. The abuse from the schools is well documented the majority of the cases the students did reach out with no avail, whatever is in place today is not enough.

[MikeD]

10 minutes ago, Spatzzz said:

The key word being SOME. Others were caught red handed while being given the opportunity to "resign" so as not to cause a PR nightmare for said school district. They then were allowed to ply their "trade" as it were in other schools in the same state. It is correct to state that this is more than just a DCI problem. It is a problem in the pageantry industry as a whole including DCI, DCA, BOA, WGI, HS Marching Bands and Winterguards. If people are naive enough to think this is only a DCI problem we are all in for a lot of pain here soon.

I agree, there have been instances where school staffs, not remotely limited to music, were permitted to resign and move on. Here in NJ it was actually very common when parents refused to cooperate and press charges. Admins forced the staff to resign as there was nothing else they were able to do legally. 

Those staff members were considered to have resigned in good standing. If a subsequent district contacted them, all they were able to say was that person Z was employed from A to B and resigned. They were not permitted to allude to any actions that were not part of the official record, otherwise the original district was opened to be sued by the employee. That was referred to here in NJ as "passing the trash".

Happy to say, in NJ they just put a law in place this year called "Don't Pass the Trash" where anyone filling out a job application at a school district must sign an agreement that the new district can contact the old district(s), going back 20 years, and those older districts MUST be open about why the person resigned. I just filled out two of them this fall, as I am substitute teaching in two districts.

 

[JohnZ]

unnecessary personal attacks have been removed, and we are at that point in every thread where the discussion is way off point and closing it and encouraging a reboot may be best....but we'll give it a while longer to see where you all go with it from here.

 

 

[JimF-LowBari]

16 minutes ago, garfield said:

Yes, actually exactly.  And I'm thankful for their efforts, truly.  And I mean that.

 

And fromthepressbox has some New England and Quebec scores from about 80s and 90s not in dczmuseum. But towns not listed 

[Terri Schehr]

1 minute ago, JohnZ said:

unnecessary personal attacks have been removed, and we are at that point in every thread where the discussion is way off point and closing it and encouraging a reboot may be best....but we'll give it a while longer to see where you all go with it from here.

 

 

Thanks. 

[MikeD]

10 minutes ago, Bluzes said:

My comment is my comment. I feel for the victims that were molested while in high school just as much as I would feel for the victims if it happened on tour. Both the schools and drum corps vetting is failing. Why all the nipping when I try to expand the liability to the schools? Explain googling tainted school teachers it brings up 100's of thousands of articles. The school staffs awareness, willingness to speak up is in question. Properly training their staffs to identify and speak up when warning signs occur, taking complains seriously is all in question. The abuse from the schools is well documented the majority of the cases the students did reach out with no avail, whatever is in place today is not enough.

Because we are talking about drum corps here, and discussing the news articles. Dragging in irrelevant activities just muddies the waters. 

Schools in general, at least here in NJ, are doing a far better job than they used to on this topic. Will it ever be perfect? No...bad people will be bad people and find a way to engage in terrible behavior no matter what rule and policies are in place. How they are ferreted out and eliminated is the key.

Here in NJ, school staffs go through much training on this topic...teachers, admins, aides, bus drivers, volunteers, etc. I just sat through a session today as part of my substitute application process.   

[garfield]

27 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

Can we agree he was in the Kilties?   At least in 2011 and 2012.  It was in the article and the director admitted it to Tricia. 

This one's up to you guys.  I'm not connected in there.

nm

Edited December 17, 2018 by garfield