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It's clearly off-season with nothing to talk about, so find something to complain about. If the young people auditioning are honest with themselves, then they should be able to tell if they have a legitimate shot to make one of those "open spots," and if not, should not waster their time going to callback camps. I remember several individuals being asked back for camps because the staff wanted to make sure that all spots were going to be filled (as there was going to be those not show up, or not be prepared the next time).

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46 minutes ago, ibexpercussion said:

If the young people auditioning are honest with themselves, then they should be able to tell if they have a legitimate shot to make one of those "open spots,"

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1 hour ago, ibexpercussion said:

It's clearly off-season with nothing to talk about, so find something to complain about. If the young people auditioning are honest with themselves, then they should be able to tell if they have a legitimate shot to make one of those "open spots," and if not, should not waster their time going to callback camps. I remember several individuals being asked back for camps because the staff wanted to make sure that all spots were going to be filled (as there was going to be those not show up, or not be prepared the next time).

I can assure you it is something worth talking about.  The timing is only natural, because this is the time of year when this is all going down - not a contrived controversy born out of seasonal doldrums.  As a parent trying to make this activity possible for my young adults, the costs of airfare and camp fees for these audition camps really add up, and they are a real barrier to entry for many young people.

And to put some current data behind this, my MMs both got contract offers yesterday, but they were in the minority (about 30%) who did at the top-12 callback camp they attended. Many of the others traveled from out of state as callbacks from distant satellite camps.

Edited by WaxDCIFan
Cuz I Kant type with one finger
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This is a really interesting topic and one that I feel deserves so looking into by the activity as a whole. I am a little surprised that it happens as much as the original poster stated but not following that portion of the activity that heavily anymore it may be a valid number. Essentially it boils down to the kids and how far they want to go to follow this dream of being a part of an elite group in this activity. I know of a lot of groups that offer video auditions but past that point it would probably be a requirement to be present at their off season camps as it should be. Although I'm 100% in the camp that the corps should keep the kids individually abreast of where they stand at each of these camps and their possibilities of making the group, there is no way to regulate this so we can just hope that it is being done. Although I marched many moons ago, I made a decision to travel from east Tennessee to Orlando ( about a 120hr drive) monthly through the winter and then a few times a month in the spring because I wanted to be a part of something special. Not saying it's wrong but it's just something that needs to be taken into account on an individual basis.

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If they are looking to pursue a life as a musician after they finish college then they better get used to the fact that when they walk into auditions there will be dozens (or many more) talented musicians that are there to fill one opening. That is the life of a musician. You pay for your travel, hotel, meals everything knowing that you have a 1 in (some large number) shot of getting the gig. It's called life. The fact is that in these call back camps their chances are WAY HIGHER than real life auditions. If you are not prepared to meet these realities maybe this activity isn't for you.

ETA: Even HS kids as they prepare for college auditions will face steep odds in many cases. High level college studios for brass players often only take 1-4 new members into their studios a year among dozens of applicants. Why should this activity be any different when they are looking for the best of the best?

Edited by Spatzzz
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Ok as stated when you walk into an audition expect competition and you have to pay your expenses for that shot I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is on top of the travel expenses there is also a camp fee. I have personally witnessed vets saying they only had to show up and sign the contract and I expect that my point is if you know at the first camp how many spots are left to fill then don’t bring back 6 times as many as needed and charge them all the fee. As far as HS kids auditioning for college yes we have gone through that process but low and behold it didn’t cost a fee to audition and they offer scholarships at most schools for musicians. So I guess your right why should this activity be any different then college auditions? 

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2 hours ago, Spatzzz said:

If they are looking to pursue a life as a musician after they finish college then they better get used to the fact that when they walk into auditions there will be dozens (or many more) talented musicians that are there to fill one opening. That is the life of a musician. You pay for your travel, hotel, meals everything knowing that you have a 1 in (some large number) shot of getting the gig. It's called life. The fact is that in these call back camps their chances are WAY HIGHER than real life auditions. If you are not prepared to meet these realities maybe this activity isn't for you.

ETA: Even HS kids as they prepare for college auditions will face steep odds in many cases. High level college studios for brass players often only take 1-4 new members into their studios a year among dozens of applicants. Why should this activity be any different when they are looking for the best of the best?

I think the point the OP was making is that there is an issue with some corps that need to fill a small number of spots,  calling back up to 10x the number of auditioners for those few spots AND charging them camp fees on top of that, thereby making it a profit center to do so.  I think that's the gist.  I don't see any problem with calling back more auditioners for fewer spots but 10x the number is ridiculous, and in my mind a bit unethical for a youth activity (first and foremost it IS a youth activity).  The issue for some corps is maybe they have in the past called back the number of auditioners for the number of spots, found their MM and offered a contract only to learn the person went to another corps he/she had also auditioned for.

I don't think any corps should be charging any auditioner for what is essentially an extended audition; whether that kid is a vet or would be a rookie is contracted.  AND any kids called back should really have a legitimate shot at a spot.  On the flip side, any kid called back, should be letting the corps know if they have been to any other auditions and possibly have a contract offer coming.  It should be a two way street.

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You didn't have to pay a college application fee? That is a fee you have to pay just for the right to audition. 

Camps cost money, Facilities are not free, food is not free, instructions is not free. These corps do not know how many people will actually attend a call-back camp so they call-back many more than they have spots for. I'm sure they make a little money off these camps but not boatloads. And the kids come willingly so there is that.

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I don't think even Alabama's football team brings in 50 players for two linebacker spots.  :laughing:

But if they did, I wish Nick Saban would send some of the "just missed the cut" guys to Rutgers.  LOL.

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6 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

I don't think even Alabama's football team brings in 50 players for two linebacker spots.  :laughing:

But if they did, I wish Nick Saban would send some of the "just missed the cut" guys to Rutgers.  LOL.

And Illinois.  Come on, Nick.  Give us your castoffs. 

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