Jeff Ream Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 7 hours ago, KeithHall said: "...determined to make Pioneer a great corps...." (RB) So what effort was made in the last 30 years to do that? This corps has been in DCI since , really the beginning (1972), and yet the corps used the same them year after year. I do recall seeing The Thing and they played Seals and Croft "Hummingbird." Nothing Irish about that BUT I still remember after all these years! The judges and the fans have reacted to it for decades and there was RB still saying do the Irish thing again. While corps across the country were changing there ways and being successful, there was Pioneer, dead last in World Class (hey that rhymes). I always rooted for Pioneer, but their best years were a period when quality and quantity in DCI were down outside of the top 12...sure they made semis a few times when it was only the top 17, but there wasn't 20+ true World class corps at that time. When they stopped letting Open Class corps compete in the World Class shows finals week Pioneer was towards the bottom. When they let them come back to prelims, Pioneer stopped being in the top 25, which was Friday, and seemed to slip a little more every year. I give them props for giving many kids a chance name corps wouldn't touch. They had some great people working with them. But to be a successful World Class corps, it is so much more than staff in front of the kids. It;s the culture around the organization. I mentioned elsewhere, at an event in Indy in 2010, a long time volunteer went on and on about the conditions...the buses, food, low budget approach to everything...and said until true leadership change happened, it would continue that way, and as corps around them grew and improved, Pioneer would slide further down. And he was right 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, BigW said: And a lot of that youth was to be found in Central PA from the newly emerging competition band scene. There were few if any small competitive junior corps in that region at that time. The Black Diamond Regiment et al were more east of Harrisburg. There was a very small all-girls corps in Lewistown that was on its way out as well. the growth of TOB and Cavalcade played a big part in keeping Westshore and Bucs going for many years. Even Archie, C2, Sky since they moved, C2 even though they were tied to USBands...so many kids in DCA corps came out of bands in those circuits. And many of those kids went on later to teach those bands. My biggest worry since Westshore folded, and I do see some of it coming home to roost is where that next generation will come from. I'm from the last era of Westshore, and fewer and fewer people I marched with are still out there teaching bands....and not many did a lot to help breed the next generation. I feel proud to say I did my best and can point to successes....but now that generation is aging too 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 16 hours ago, BigW said: Pio also had some tangible successes in the lower classes, and really should have stayed there, which IMHO was a problem with management that couldn't get their arms around that. To be fair, pretty much everyone was saying the exact opposite in 1996. They were deeply resented for staying in division II that year, after winning it in 1994 and 1995. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 5 hours ago, cixelsyd said: To be fair, pretty much everyone was saying the exact opposite in 1996. They were deeply resented for staying in division II that year, after winning it in 1994 and 1995. In other words, please move up and take a beating so someone else can win? In retrospective, moving up was jumping a zillion sharks for that corps. Sometimes, a corps is best at whatever level it finds success, moving up kills it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 25 minutes ago, BigW said: In other words, please move up and take a beating so someone else can win? In retrospective, moving up was jumping a zillion sharks for that corps. Sometimes, a corps is best at whatever level it finds success, moving up kills it. the determining factor between who was world and open was a lot different then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: the determining factor between who was world and open was a lot different then Mainly size IIRC? I remember things changing right and left for a bit until they went down the recent 2-class system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, BigW said: Mainly size IIRC? I remember things changing right and left for a bit until they went down the recent 2-class system. size and score was far more of a determining factor than the now financial requirements involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Pioneer had their chance in '98; they had a full and very talented corps. The image and show that was put on the field doomed them from the start. First, they looked like an Irish version of the 27th Lancers. Second, the whole "Irish In Your Face" show was nothing more than an Irish caricature of lame music. That corps deserved better and could have made a statement with a fresh image and sound. The next year they came out with a significantly smaller hornline of around 25 or 28 and they said, "we wanted to go with a smaller hornline." I can't imagine any organization that would love to go from 64 brass down to 25. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, corps8294 said: . The next year they came out with a significantly smaller hornline of around 25 or 28 and they said, "we wanted to go with a smaller hornline." I can't imagine any organization that would love to go from 64 brass down to 25. So the bs started earlier than I thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: So the bs started earlier than I thought Oh yes, I can't tell you how many staff ( talented ) and members I filtered into there only to stay a year or so. Always the same reason, although when mentioned by some here it being an unfavorable situation as a possibility a few years ago many sang the praises of the direction only to now tout the outrage. Well, at least we all can still learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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