Cadevilina Crown

Pioneer's DCI Membership Has Been Revoked

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14 hours ago, corps8294 said:

Pioneer had their chance in '98; they had a full and very talented corps. The image and show that was put on the field doomed them from the start. First, they looked like an Irish version of the 27th Lancers. Second, the whole "Irish In Your Face" show was nothing more than an Irish caricature of lame music. That corps deserved better and could have made a statement with a fresh image and sound. The next year they came out with a significantly smaller hornline of around 25 or 28 and they said, "we wanted to go with a smaller hornline." I can't imagine any organization that would love to go from 64 brass down to 25. 

By the end of the 90s, the drumline for the corps had near Top 12 talent (check the Pioneer drumline scores from Quarters and Semis in 1999), a decent music book in 1999 and 2000. That was in spite of the fact that the corps did lose a lot of drumline members to the Top 12, hornline members to the reborn Southwind from Lexington KY. The corps started to really fall apart after 2001, missing Semis by .05 that year. You would think that after the 2002 season, there would have been some discussion about the music direction and operations of the corps to remain competitive, but no. Roman dug in and continued trying to play music that was routinely being panned by the DCI judging community. 

I am not trying to "throw darts" at Roman on social media. But really, is this what you wanted your legacy with Pioneer to be? Thrown out of DCI for your own malfeasance. If your organization was to serve as a youth musical organization, then give up control and let others to direct the organization as such. 

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32 minutes ago, Tim78 said:

By the end of the 90s, the drumline for the corps had near Top 12 talent (check the Pioneer drumline scores from Quarters and Semis in 1999), a decent music book in 1999 and 2000. That was in spite of the fact that the corps did lose a lot of drumline members to the Top 12, hornline members to the reborn Southwind from Lexington KY. The corps started to really fall apart after 2001, missing Semis by .05 that year. You would think that after the 2002 season, there would have been some discussion about the music direction and operations of the corps to remain competitive, but no. Roman dug in and continued trying to play music that was routinely being panned by the DCI judging community. 

I am not trying to "throw darts" at Roman on social media. But really, is this what you wanted your legacy with Pioneer to be? Thrown out of DCI for your own malfeasance. If your organization was to serve as a youth musical organization, then give up control and let others to direct the organization as such. 

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. It apparently flows through Milwaukee too

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4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. It apparently flows through Milwaukee too

And  what is scary for you Jeff,  also somewhere near where you live?

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5 hours ago, Tim78 said:

By the end of the 90s, the drumline for the corps had near Top 12 talent (check the Pioneer drumline scores from Quarters and Semis in 1999), a decent music book in 1999 and 2000. That was in spite of the fact that the corps did lose a lot of drumline members to the Top 12, hornline members to the reborn Southwind from Lexington KY. The corps started to really fall apart after 2001, missing Semis by .05 that year. You would think that after the 2002 season, there would have been some discussion about the music direction and operations of the corps to remain competitive, but no. Roman dug in and continued trying to play music that was routinely being panned by the DCI judging community. 

I am not trying to "throw darts" at Roman on social media. But really, is this what you wanted your legacy with Pioneer to be? Thrown out of DCI for your own malfeasance. If your organization was to serve as a youth musical organization, then give up control and let others to direct the organization as such. 

I might be wrong but I think the reason Pioneer was successful competitively during that time is because Roman was involved with running DCM. The corps was under different directorship and I don’t think Roman was as heavily involved. The real downfall happened after the demise of DCM and Roman’s taking over complete control. 

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18 minutes ago, BigW said:

And  what is scary for you Jeff,  also somewhere near where you live?

just some small streams

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22 hours ago, Brian Tuma said:

I might be wrong but I think the reason Pioneer was successful competitively during that time is because Roman was involved with running DCM. The corps was under different directorship and I don’t think Roman was as heavily involved. The real downfall happened after the demise of DCM and Roman’s taking over complete control. 

Roman was still very much involved. He wrote the rules of what kind of shows could be on the field and what they had to involve. Design teams and instructional staffs were very limited as to what they could do creatively. Pioneer's success at DCM was because Roman was constantly changing the rules, every season, to make sure Pioneer made finals. If that meant some Div I, II, or III corps didn't make it in; it was no big deal as long as Pioneer was in the night show. 

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On 2/2/2019 at 1:20 PM, corps8294 said:

Roman was still very much involved. He wrote the rules of what kind of shows could be on the field and what they had to involve. Design teams and instructional staffs were very limited as to what they could do creatively. Pioneer's success at DCM was because Roman was constantly changing the rules, every season, to make sure Pioneer made finals. If that meant some Div I, II, or III corps didn't make it in; it was no big deal as long as Pioneer was in the night show. 

Fact check:

- no, the rules did not change "every season"

- Pioneer missed finals in 1986, 1987 and 1988

- when they returned to DCM finals in 1989, it was by the same rules as the prior year

- rules like those required approval of the member corps

 

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I have not visited this board since I stopped actively marching DCA several years ago.  In light of recent events, curiosity got the better of me and I decided to have a look around.  Not surprisingly, little has changed since I left.  I estimate 50% of the posters here are just on the board to take cheap shots at others, spread rumors and share their "facts" regarding subjects about which they actually know very little.

It is sicking to read some of the derogatory comments that have been posted here about the Pioneer organization as a whole and specific members of the management team.  Post after post from nameless Keyboard Warriors coming here to celebrate what has happened to the Pioneer organization.  I am in no way going to claim that I know everything about the history of the corps or every little fact about what has gone on the last few years.  I can however tell you that if keeping a corps on the field year after year after year was easy, EVERYONE would do it.  Many new corps can't even make it to year two, if they can even get off the ground at all.  I have no doubt that mistakes were made by the Pioneer organization to reach this point, some of them serious ones.  Some of those mistakes include alumni of the organization not supporting the corps as best we could and simply taking it for granted.  But that is no way excuses some of the things that are being posted here.

I was, am, and always will be proud that I marched Pioneer because I saw first hand the effort that was put into the organization to keep it running and I know what we as members gave of ourselves to make the corps the best it could be each and every year.  Was it easy?  No.  Were there rough patches and bumps in the road?  Absolutely.  I am glad it was hard and I don't regret that it was tough.  It wasn't always fun and yet it was the three best summers of my life - memories, friends, places, traditions and experiences that I would not trade for anything.

I am proud that Pioneer didn't yield to DCI's vision of drum corps and become like every other organization that has to buy a new spandex "costume" every year to keep up with the spending arms race.  I could care less if they didn't have an extra 53' foot tractor-trailer full of props, amps, mics and other useless crap that other corps now consider essential.  I'm glad that Pioneer decided to do show music and concepts that were true to their roots, regardless of what was popular or what others said they should do.  I'm glad that they felt going to church on Sunday was more important than one more hour of rehearsal a week so they could earn another 0.1 of a point from a caption judge in a polo shirt on show day.  I'm thrilled that every year Pioneer found new ways to put Irish in the face of drum corps fans throughout North America.  Pioneer has decades of tradition and they chose to continue to honor that every time they took the field, in spite of what outsiders said they should do. 

I hope that some day those of you that come here to take your cheap shots at others will have the opportunity to help build something meaningful with your time and effort so you won't have to resort to spending your free time trying to tear something or someone else down so you can feel important.  I hope that Pioneer finds the way and means to do what is necessary to once again return to the field of competition.  The absence of Pioneer from drum corps means that there are most certainly young people who will never get the chance to experience what I did because other corps simply won't make the effort that Pioneer did to find them a place in the world of competitive marching arts.

Better Every Day...

Ryan Johnson

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3 hours ago, Irish-Kiltie said:

I have not visited this board since I stopped actively marching DCA several years ago.  In light of recent events, curiosity got the better of me and I decided to have a look around.  Not surprisingly, little has changed since I left.  I estimate 50% of the posters here are just on the board to take cheap shots at others, spread rumors and share their "facts" regarding subjects about which they actually know very little.

It is sicking to read some of the derogatory comments that have been posted here about the Pioneer organization as a whole and specific members of the management team.  Post after post from nameless Keyboard Warriors coming here to celebrate what has happened to the Pioneer organization.  I am in no way going to claim that I know everything about the history of the corps or every little fact about what has gone on the last few years.  I can however tell you that if keeping a corps on the field year after year after year was easy, EVERYONE would do it.  Many new corps can't even make it to year two, if they can even get off the ground at all.  I have no doubt that mistakes were made by the Pioneer organization to reach this point, some of them serious ones.  Some of those mistakes include alumni of the organization not supporting the corps as best we could and simply taking it for granted.  But that is no way excuses some of the things that are being posted here.

I was, am, and always will be proud that I marched Pioneer because I saw first hand the effort that was put into the organization to keep it running and I know what we as members gave of ourselves to make the corps the best it could be each and every year.  Was it easy?  No.  Were there rough patches and bumps in the road?  Absolutely.  I am glad it was hard and I don't regret that it was tough.  It wasn't always fun and yet it was the three best summers of my life - memories, friends, places, traditions and experiences that I would not trade for anything.

I am proud that Pioneer didn't yield to DCI's vision of drum corps and become like every other organization that has to buy a new spandex "costume" every year to keep up with the spending arms race.  I could care less if they didn't have an extra 53' foot tractor-trailer full of props, amps, mics and other useless crap that other corps now consider essential.  I'm glad that Pioneer decided to do show music and concepts that were true to their roots, regardless of what was popular or what others said they should do.  I'm glad that they felt going to church on Sunday was more important than one more hour of rehearsal a week so they could earn another 0.1 of a point from a caption judge in a polo shirt on show day.  I'm thrilled that every year Pioneer found new ways to put Irish in the face of drum corps fans throughout North America.  Pioneer has decades of tradition and they chose to continue to honor that every time they took the field, in spite of what outsiders said they should do. 

I hope that some day those of you that come here to take your cheap shots at others will have the opportunity to help build something meaningful with your time and effort so you won't have to resort to spending your free time trying to tear something or someone else down so you can feel important.  I hope that Pioneer finds the way and means to do what is necessary to once again return to the field of competition.  The absence of Pioneer from drum corps means that there are most certainly young people who will never get the chance to experience what I did because other corps simply won't make the effort that Pioneer did to find them a place in the world of competitive marching arts.

Better Every Day...

Ryan Johnson

I appreciate your dedication to your corps. Oh and for the record, this is my real name, not a faceless warrior.

 

and yet you totally ignore the issues that led to Pioneer's suspension....that the corps had created an unsafe environment for kids, and in fact kids were chastised for reporting these issues by the Leader himself, hat on head. If the administration had done the basics to ensure safety, both from any type of sexual misconduct that may have been reported, to making wise hiring choices ( aka people not on the registry) and had addressed the various health and welfare concerns, they would not have been put into this position. And when called on these issues, instead of correcting them, they dug their heels in. One could say the Leader made his own situation worse in his statements to the press.

 

Your statement above ignores all of that. When you can admit that this issue caused Pioneer to be suspended, then we can have a real conversation. otherwise, you're ignoring the real problem, not that they didn't bend to design trends etc.

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12 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

I appreciate your dedication to your corps. Oh and for the record, this is my real name, not a faceless warrior.

 

and yet you totally ignore the issues that led to Pioneer's suspension....that the corps had created an unsafe environment for kids, and in fact kids were chastised for reporting these issues by the Leader himself, hat on head. If the administration had done the basics to ensure safety, both from any type of sexual misconduct that may have been reported, to making wise hiring choices ( aka people not on the registry) and had addressed the various health and welfare concerns, they would not have been put into this position. And when called on these issues, instead of correcting them, they dug their heels in. One could say the Leader made his own situation worse in his statements to the press.

 

Your statement above ignores all of that. When you can admit that this issue caused Pioneer to be suspended, then we can have a real conversation. otherwise, you're ignoring the real problem, not that they didn't bend to design trends etc.

I appreciate Ryans points about those on this forum (who go by their own name or not) who simply lob hand grenades to fuel their own egos. 

Those who have followed this thread know the details of the issues with Pioneer and don't need to be reminded.

 

 

 

Edited by copyright
Darn GIF

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