MikeD Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: The lyrics to the Four Seasons tune (which I know well, even if it came out some years before I was born) seem apt for these discussions: "Silence is golden, but my eyes still see." Not to mention: "Oh don't it hurt deep inside to see someone do something to her." - - - - - - - - - - According to DCX, no corp has played "Silence Is Golden", but as most people here know, "The Sounds of Silence" has been performed many times in drum corps. I knew that "Enjoy the Silence" by Depeche Mode had been played once, but not that "I Loved You Once in Silence" from the musical Camelot had been performed in this activity--and I'd never even heard of Alan Parsons Project's "Silence and I", performed twice in the early 1980s. "Silence is Golden" was actually the "B" flip side of the Four Seasons single that featured one of my all time favorite songs, "Rag Doll". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, luv4corps said: This is the usurp camp talking. If anyone wants to know what I know about the main sexual harassment claim from last year, please PM me. I am not comfortable talking about it in the forum but I will discuss it privately. And please, I am a woman and have been sexually harassed on several occasions. I know what sexual harassment is, and what it isn't. To say the new tour staff had no agenda... please. They were ready to take over the corps. Give me a break. I am well aware of five cases of sexual harassment/misconduct involving OC students and/or staff from the 2017 and 2018 seasons. In each situation, any justice served was motivated primarily by instructional staff. On the contrary, the executive corps director either took no action whatsoever or acted appropriately only after pressured by other staff members to do so. The new tour staff this year had only two items on their agenda: to do their jobs and to do their jobs WELL. I wouldn’t be shocked if they wanted to expand their roles in the organization—not because they were bloodthirsty for power, but because they likely could run it more effectively. (Imagine showing up to a new job with more experience and more proven success than your boss... wouldn’t you feel justified in your desire to be promoted?) I wouldn’t be shocked if the new tour staff’s competence simply threatened the mediocrity of the corps director and the board chairman. I don’t question that the corps director was, generally, a nice person. I also don’t question that he was the right leader to take over back in 2007 when the only goal was to simply field a corps. Now that they’ve been in a higher echelon of competitive success, I think the role has since grown to be too big for him to fill, and I think his pride prevented him from admitting that. If he had the strength to admit his deficiencies, he would have stepped down in August after the staff urged the Board of Directors for his resignation. Instead, he and the chairman of the board held onto their roles until they were left with no choice but to shut down the corps for 2019. Again, no one wanted this to happen—we just wanted an OC managed by trustworthy, capable people. Though the corps director and board chairman were nice people, their actions (or lack thereof, in some cases) spoke louder than their nice words, ultimately proving them to not be the leaders that this corps needed anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Bluzes said: I am not reading that into you posts. It's the "Fred Has No Defense". The defense the Pats will use Sunday.. For me it's the fine line they walk betwwen his two functions within the youth-activity. What message are they sending? They have not explained how the intergity of the BOD is more important than direct contact with the kids? Heck we can't even figure it out they need to explain this without all the double talk. he's not on the executive board now. leave the football stuff out and just talk coherent drum corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 hours ago, HockeyDad said: I like that you called me dude. But I digress. Question for you - seems like you’re giving him a pass because there was no rule in place at the time. True? Maybe not giving him a pass, but maybe saying Dan Acheson can’t make him step down or suspend the corps as he did Pio, because rules weren’t in place? I don’t know. Do they really need a rule saying “don’t do stupid stuff”? IMO he knowingly put youth at risk by placing Joel Moody on his staff. This is inexcusable. If Crossmen BOD won’t act to remove him (and it’s pretty clear at this point that Crossmen BOD is every bit the rubber stamp Cadets, Pioneer, Oregon Crusaders, and probably most of the rest of them were or still are), and Dan Acheson won’t act (and you can’t convince me he doesn’t have the power of his personality to do so, at a minimum), then perhaps more negative public shaming from The Philly Inquirer will do it. Or parents will stop allowing their kids to march Crossmen. i call everyone dude...ask Guardling. He loves it LOL! I am not giving him a pass at all. Hiring Joel is verifiable proof... a news paper story that talks about someone "seeing a receipt several years ago"....not verifiable. And while I'd love to see heads roll for abuses previous to the rules going into place, technically, anything before April DCI can't demand ####, because prior to April, they had no rules in place to cover it. And i've been loud and proud that they should have had them, but I can't change time. They now do have a rule that says don't do stupid stuff. Knowing what I know now, Crossmen isn't a place I'd willingly send my kid. I also agree his board appears to be as rubber stamp as Pio or the old YEA Board was.But someone saying they saw a receipt, and someone finding an electronic history that shows he paid to make the stuff disappear are huge differences, and I can see why DCI hasn't done anything, even if I wish they did. and if DCI is going to go retroactive on everyone that hired someone who did stuff to kids, there's NOT ONE corps that would have a director. Funny the Larson stuff finally hit the papers, and boom, cavies director was gone, and not too long before that Stewart left Pio's board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: just talk coherent drum corps First place thanks for even thinking I am capable of that. It's a real step-up for me. Now if any of us were speaking coherent drum corps since last April I would have picked up on it. Maybe we should go back to the roots and build from there. PS can I say dci is played on a football field? Edited January 16, 2019 by Bluzes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocadvocate Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 hours ago, mint said: I am well aware of five cases of sexual harassment/misconduct involving OC students and/or staff from the 2017 and 2018 seasons. In each situation, any justice served was motivated primarily by instructional staff. On the contrary, the executive corps director either took no action whatsoever or acted appropriately only after pressured by other staff members to do so. The new tour staff this year had only two items on their agenda: to do their jobs and to do their jobs WELL. I wouldn’t be shocked if they wanted to expand their roles in the organization—not because they were bloodthirsty for power, but because they likely could run it more effectively. (Imagine showing up to a new job with more experience and more proven success than your boss... wouldn’t you feel justified in your desire to be promoted?) I wouldn’t be shocked if the new tour staff’s competence simply threatened the mediocrity of the corps director and the board chairman. I don’t question that the corps director was, generally, a nice person. I also don’t question that he was the right leader to take over back in 2007 when the only goal was to simply field a corps. Now that they’ve been in a higher echelon of competitive success, I think the role has since grown to be too big for him to fill, and I think his pride prevented him from admitting that. If he had the strength to admit his deficiencies, he would have stepped down in August after the staff urged the Board of Directors for his resignation. Instead, he and the chairman of the board held onto their roles until they were left with no choice but to shut down the corps for 2019. Again, no one wanted this to happen—we just wanted an OC managed by trustworthy, capable people. Though the corps director and board chairman were nice people, their actions (or lack thereof, in some cases) spoke louder than their nice words, ultimately proving them to not be the leaders that this corps needed anymore. You are "well aware" of 5 sexual harassment cases? You were personally part of the decision-making process and how they were handled by the Executive Director? Or, are you just parroting the rest of mob that just took down a world class drum corps? The new Corps Director was there for, what, maybe 9 months, and thought that he could do the job better than the one who had built it up for the prior 10 years? Really? That's pretty presumptuous given that he'd never been a corps director before. So, it's OK to defame a "nice person", and make all kinds of assumptions about whether he was trustworthy? Really? Who's job is it to evaluate the Executive Director's job performance? You? Subordinates? 20-something staff people who have never managed anything in their lives? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? Have you looked at who is on their board of directors? These are professional people. Many are parents that have had kids in the corps. They reviewed the many bogus complaints and looked through to the truth of the matters. And so did DCI. No wrong-doing, incompetence, or neglect was found. And lest you think that they did not have an agenda, I was recently shown this gem from a "2019 New Beginnings" document written by the Corps Director (who didn't clean out his google drive completely) and shared with staff, dated Aug 16 - before Quillen was even home from Indianapolis or knew of the pending storm that was about hit. "2019 New Beginnings (A new approach for the future of the Oregon Crusaders Drum & Bugle Corps) To the board of directors, staff, designers, admin team, media & health team, let me begin by saying thank you for this opportunity to work as your executive director/CEO." Oh, and the Program Coordinator, who "resigned" on the day of Semifinals, also reserved her apartment in Salem, Oregon for the summer of 2019 the day before. She obviously intended to come back after the Corps Director was installed as their new king. This was a coup attempt plain and simple. The rest of the staff and members were tools for the take down, using sexual harassment claims, sexism and homophobia claims, any possible organizational deficiencies, and the DCI whistleblower system as weapons to their ends. I'm also told that the Oregon Crusaders 2018 members left unpaid member fees of around $50,000. Shame on you! Shame on you all for what you've done to the people who put their life, sweat, money, blood, and tears into this organization. Not to mention their families. You say that you didn't want this to happen. What the EFF did you expect would happen? That they would just roll over and take your BS accusations and turn over the keys to the kingdom? Idiots. You overplayed your hand, and the truth will come out soon enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Ok mods we are getting crap thrown both directions with no proof given. At this point i can’t tell if the REAL problem was sexual harassment and member health or coup attempt with sh/mh as cover stories. Looks like a few defamation of character lawsuits in the works except real names not posted. meanwhile looking for the Philly Inquirer article regarding OC and others Edited January 16, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocadvocate Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Ok mods we are getting crap thrown both directions with no proof given. At this point i can’t tell if the REAL problem was sexual harassment and member health or coup attempt with sh/mh as cover stories. Looks like a few defamation of character lawsuits in the works except real names not posted. meanwhile looking for the Philly Inquirer article regarding OC and others I didn't defame anyone. Defamation has been occurring in this forum on this topic for months. Finally, and alternative opinion is presented, and there are calls for closing the topic. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ocadvocate said: I didn't defame anyone. Defamation has been occurring in this forum on this topic for months. Finally, and alternative opinion is presented, and there are calls for closing the topic. Nice. Accusing people of coup attempts is not expressing an opinion it is stating your version of the “facts”. And accusing someone of a coup attempt is defamation unless it is true and haven’t seen any evidence either way yet Edited January 16, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake W. Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 40 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Accusing people of coup attempts is not expressing an opinion it is stating your version of the “facts”. And accusing someone of a coup attempt is defamation unless it is true and haven’t seen any evidence either way yet I'm with you on this. My judgement is still out on this situation, since there seems to be so much information coming in unsubstantiated from both sides since August, but adding more "I heard" fuel to the fire is pointless. The time has passed for that. Not that there's ever a time for that. List facts & evidence along with your claims. A corps that really seemed to have promise has gone inactive for the 2019 season, and there is no room anymore for "I heard". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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