When Will We See A Full-Field Tarp in DCI?

[Lead]

I didn't want to dig through 7 pages of responses but...

Corps are NOT ALLOWED to use any tarps on any natural-grass surfaces on tour, which includes practice sites and show sites. 

While rehearsal and shows can be done in lieu of smaller tarps, not sure without being creative how they would rehearse or perform with a full-field tarp, as the tarp would undoubtedly be a huge part of the show design.

Just my .02

[denverjohn]

2 hours ago, wolfgang said:

Was Jackson Academy in 1993 the first group of any kind to use a tarp on a football field in a competition performance?

Blue Devils: "Tommy"

[skevinp]

23 minutes ago, denverjohn said:

Blue Devils: "Tommy"

They sure played a mean pinball.

[Jake W.]

10 hours ago, jeffmolnar said:

I disagree that there was pull and push outside of Texas. I went to a TX “BOA school” and followed the top groups at nationals during that time. Everyone was still chasing The Cavaliers in design. That corps designed circles around most of the top H.S. groups and their cheesy props, voice overs, silly costumes, etc. Cavies got their GE the hard way, without relying on external “crutches.” TX was obviously better about not giving into BOA nonsense, but nationally you still had bands like Carmel and Marian Catholic who would’ve fit right in at the UIL state marching contest.

Doing something wacky and different isn’t inherently “pushing the activity.” It’s just being wacky and different. Covering the entire field with a tarp isn’t a feast for my eyes, because my eyes are rolling into the back of my head. It’s such a juvenile demand for attention. Instead of generating interest with your actual performance, you demand that I pay attention to your giant prop that’s burning a hole in my retinas. Extremely lame, and so very “high school.”

Innovation is born from limitations. You mentioned sports, but I don’t think that comparison works like you want it to. In basketball they might slightly change the rules from time to time, but the court is the same size with 2 hoops at the same height. In soccer they might change how certain penalties work, but they still don’t let you pick up the ball with your hands and run. Coaches have to design their plays around each game’s limitations. That’s what makes them beautiful.

DCI giving in to the BOA prop arms race has been super disappointing for me to watch. That’s not innovation, that’s just claiming freebie GE points because you weren’t a good enough designer to get them the real way. I get why it’s done — it’s an easier, more reliable way of securing GE points. That doesn’t make it more impressive, though, and at the end of the day, that’s what I want out of a DCI show. To be impressed.

I'm not arguing that Cavies were the largest influence & were THE activity-wide innovators in the early 00s, but to disregard the influence that various top high school bands had during that era would be silly. You mentioned Carmel, and as much as I love that group, I don't view them as a trendsetter ensemble until about 5 - 6 years ago, even though they've been at or near the top for 15 - 20 years. If we're talking early 00s, Lawrence Central in particular is THE group, corps or high school band, that truly made dance and non-marching movement an integral, large-scale part of their shows, and we obviously see that influence still today all across the activity. Randy Greenwell & Matt James have no corps experience to my knowledge, but despite that, the two directors, along with Greg Hagen as their visual head during that time, are truly responsible for elevating dance-based movement to a status equal to marching-based movement in their shows. We can argue till the cows come home about whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but to deny Lawrence Central's early 00s influence on the activity, and not just high school band, is ridiculous. Same with Plymouth-Canton backing up 5 years before that or so to the late 90s --- I credit this group and the Alan Spaeth design team with the origins of deeply conceptual shows on a football field, and I don't mean just playing Don Ellis pieces in a Don Ellis show, or Copland, or a show loosely about water or something....I mean this was the first group, corps or high school band, to year after year for about a decade straight commit to choosing a theme first, building the musical selections around that, and making sure every aspect of the design portrayed that theme and told the story.

This is not to say that Cavies and other corps weren't incredibly influential, I'm not arguing that, because the top corps were and are the main drivers of our activity. But to deny the influence of various high school or indoor groups as well is to turn a blind (or selective) eye to the history of the marching arts.

[Jake W.]

I will also agree with everyone that props or tarps for the sake of props or tarps often ends up being largely ineffective, and innovation isn't inherently good, and occasionally results in a floundering show or design moment. Crown's beast prop is a perfect example of this --- largely meaningless & non-contributing. SCV's nesting platforms were incredibly well-used and I think the vast majority of viewers agree, well-thought-out and made for a very interesting visual design. Troopers' heart tarps last year almost completely useless, Boston's beach & waves quite useful. None of these are good because they are merely props or tarps, they are good because they are used in good, or engaging, ways.

The videos on YouTube don't do it justice, but O'Fallon's all white tarp was used quite effectively this year, and the splashes of color that went with each piece of music, and how that color spread across the white tarp, was pretty spectacular. A new canvas for each musical idea, which is pretty neat. Its hard to tell from high videos, but in the closer, large poles with colors of fabric stretched from top to top created a really interesting & brightly colored "upper boundary" to the field and the band marched in between the white tarp below and the boundaries of color above, almost "in" the painting. I'm not arguing that this is everyone's cup of tea, but to say it wasn't well-designed and visually engaging would be to bury one's head in the sand.

So, the take away....a large field-sized tarp could create an awful design. It could also create a great one. Props, tarps, & ideas aren't often bad in nature, it's more about how they're brought to life on the field that makes them effective or ineffective.

[jeffmolnar]

50 minutes ago, Jake W. said:

The videos on YouTube don't do it justice, but O'Fallon's all white tarp was used quite effectively this year, and the splashes of color that went with each piece of music, and how that color spread across the white tarp, was pretty spectacular. A new canvas for each musical idea, which is pretty neat. Its hard to tell from high videos, but in the closer, large poles with colors of fabric stretched from top to top created a really interesting & brightly colored "upper boundary" to the field and the band marched in between the white tarp below and the boundaries of color above, almost "in" the painting. I'm not arguing that this is everyone's cup of tea, but to say it wasn't well-designed and visually engaging would be to bury one's head in the sand.

So, the take away....a large field-sized tarp could create an awful design. It could also create a great one. Props, tarps, & ideas aren't often bad in nature, it's more about how they're brought to life on the field that makes them effective or ineffective.

That’s the thing, I don’t watch these shows for the “effect.” I watch them to be impressed by the performance. I’m not impressed by props... ever, because they’re not people. They’re extra fluff designed to secure “gimme points” because it’s easier for designers to do that than to generate the effect with the visual design and music arrangement. 

As for Carmel, that was my point. They used to do “DCI shows.” I liked that about them. Now DCI has given into the lame high school garbage, so hardly anyone is doing impressive shows anymore.

SCV was great this year in spite of their props, not because of them. Props are a crutch. Weak design.

Edited January 14, 2019 by jeffmolnar

[BigW]

Jeff brings up a good point, one that's been debated since at least the Bridgemen's peak. Take away the framing.... and what's the essence of the program? Is there musical and visual substance, or are the props just trying to take away attention from the fact there's a whole lot of not a lot going on? Or... do the props take solid musical and visual design to begin with and make it a better/more enhanced experience? There's where many groups falter or succeed.

 

Guard Caption head after a Band show a few years ago... "We spent over six thousand dollars on those props, etc. upset etc.!!!!"

 

I nearly replied, "Fine, I'll buy a Ferrari 458 Italia, drive it down the 50 and park it. I've spent 300+k on props. Tell me how it enhances the program." Others thanked me for not saying that, it might have gotten a bit testy. 

[Jake W.]

21 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said:

SCV was great this year in spite of their props, not because of them. Props are a crutch. Weak design.

Right....no one is arguing that. A prop or tarp or ANY other design element ideally enhances an already-spectacular performance, and the same prop or tarp or design element could be used ineffectively with another group, or even with the same group on a less-talented year. Props can be used as a crutch, and often are. They are inherently neither good nor bad. They can also be used to properly (pun intended) enhance a performance that is otherwise great and now better with an interesting design element that underscores the music or idea in a way that would have been absent without the prop. To say they are all bad or weak (or to say they are all inherently great & strong) is ridiculous, and that's my point with O'Fallon's tarp. It could be used quite ineffectively by another group, rendering is useless and a waste. O'Fallon used quite effectively, enhancing their music in a way that JUST strong drill alone wouldn't have done quite as effectively. Same with SCV's nesting platforms. Doesn't mean that would be the case if another corps or group used the exact same props. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Jake W.

[Bluzes]

23 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said:

SCV was great this year in spite of their props, not because of them.

So true none of my memories of great shows involves props. The reason I sit very low on the fifty is not to get closer to the props. I sometimes close my eyes to keep the visual out. That's what I tell my wife anyway so she doesn't think I am sleeping during boring shows, sort of like posting in church.

[BigW]

1 minute ago, Jake W. said:

Right....no one is arguing that. A prop or tarp or ANY other design element enhances a good performance, and the same prop or tarp or design element could be used ineffectively with another group, or even with the same group on a less-talented year. Props can be used as a crutch, and often are. They can also be used to properly (pun intended) enhance a performance that is otherwise great and now better with an interesting design element that underscores the music or idea in a way that would have been absent without the prop. To say they are all bad or weak (or to say they are all inherently great & strong) is ridiculous, and that's my point with O'Fallon's tarp. It could be used quite ineffectively by another group. O'Fallon used quite effectively, enhancing their music in a way that JUST strong drill wouldn't have done quite as effectively. Same with SCV's nesting platforms. Doesn't mean that would be the case if another corps or group used the exact same props. 

Very true. The same can be applied to arrangements and drill moves. Heard many HS groups BITD attempt the "State of the Art" charts Wayne Downey transcribed as well as Jim Ott's "Georgia on my Mind", "Old man River" and the Kerchner "My Favorite Things" charts done hideously with a total lack of understanding of what was in the charts, the musical subtleties within and the really wonderful interpretive elements in those classic charts. It applies to anything done in the activity.