Stu Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said: I'm not saying SCV could've done it more effectively without props. I'm saying I would've enjoyed whatever they did do more without props, because my focus would be on the performance of the members, instead of the giant props being pushed apart. What I want to say: "Wow, look at how clean their feet are." What I said instead: "Oh, I get it. It's the Tower of Babel breaking apart." You stated that flags and rifles are tools and they do not move on their own but are moved by the members; that was a justification for their use. Question: Did the Tower spontaneously seperate on its own or was it moved by members in the action of a performance? Edited January 14, 2019 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmolnar Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Stu said: You stated that flags and rifles are tools and they do not move on their own but are moved by the members; that was a justification for their use. Question: Did the Tower spontaneously seperate on its own or was it moved by members in the action of a performance? Answer: some members pushed it, it was super impressive. 🙄 You're being silly here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, jeffmolnar said: It's not "wiggle" at all, guard equipment is something that's always been a part of the activity. Can't get much more "essential" than that. Uniforms and costumes obviously aren't, but this is a youth activity so they really should be wearing clothes, don't you think? Trying to "gotcha" is a bad look. You know exactly what I mean. No I do not know what you mean. Just because flags and rifles have always been a part of the activity does not mean that they are not props. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, jeffmolnar said: Answer: some members pushed it, it was super impressive. 🙄 You're being silly here. Not being silly. Anything used as a tool to enhance visual performance is a prop. You just like some props and not others but have a hard time admitting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmolnar Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Stu said: No I do not know what you mean. Just because flags and rifles have always been a part of the activity does not mean that they are not props. Alright, I'll explain where I'm coming from... again. I think true innovation is born from limitations. This isn't a particularly controversial opinion, and I'm not the first person to have it. You see this in every professional sport. There are rules. Some that change over time, some that remain constant. Coaches can have certain plays reviewed using high speed cameras in major league baseball, but the players still can't use aluminum bats. Some things change, some things stay the same. For me, personally, my opinion (obviously), the marching arts have always been about using music performance and visual proficiency to communicate a theme. I came of age in the early 2000's, so I'm not a hardcore dinosaur or anything. I like the idea of themes being effectively communicated using music and movement. The colorguard has always been a part of this equation. How they perform has evolved over the years, but at the end of the day, the core aspect of utilizing body movement and mastery over equipment has remained largely the same. The "essence" of what they do. I like that. I like seeing the coolest portrayal of a theme that a group can communicate using the tools that have always been here, with some modern evolution where it makes sense. Like different instrumentation, mic'd solists, vocalists, etc. Stuff that remains true to the essence of performance. Yes, there have always been aspects of drum corps that had nothing to do with performance (uniforms, etc.) They've always been there though, and unlike giant props, they're absolutely necessary. The props don't need to be there. Effective shows could be designed without them. That's where I'm coming from with it. Edited January 15, 2019 by jeffmolnar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said: Alright, I'll explain where I'm coming from... again. I think true innovation is born from limitations. This isn't a particularly controversial opinion, and I'm not the first person to have it. You see this in every professional sport. There are rules. Some that change over time, some that remain constant. Coaches can have plays reviewed using high speed cameras in major league baseball, but the players still can't use aluminum bats. Some things change, some things remain constant. For me, personally, my opinion (obviously), the marching arts have always been about using music performance and visual proficiency to communicate a theme. I came of age in the early 2000's, so I'm not a hardcore dinosaur or anything. I like the idea of themes being effectively communicated using music and movement, The colorguard has always been a part of this equation. How they perform has evolved over the years, but at the end of the day the core aspect of employing body movement and mastery over equipment has remained largely the same. The "essence" of what they do. I like that. I like seeing the coolest communication of a theme someone can communicate using the tools that have always been here, with some modern evolution where it makes sense. Like different instrumentation, mic'd solists, vocalists, etc. Stuff that remains true to the essence of performance. Yes, there has been aspects of drum corps that have never been about performance (uniforms, etc.) They've always been there though, and unlike giant props, they're absolutely necessary. The props don't need to be there. Effective shows could be designed without them. That's where I'm coming from with it. Ok I will address this from a musician point of view. The innovative helecopter sound created by SCV in their Miss Saigon Show was created out of limitation in the rules. It was cool. But that does not mean I despise the tools of modern technology in current use by DCI; nor does it mean I want design to go back to that time period. And if a green pallet (the field) can be changed to white as a tool for visual performance enhancement that is no different than changing a uniform from green to white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmolnar Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Stu said: Ok I will address this from a musician point of view. The innovative helecopter sound created by SCV in their Miss Saigon Show was created out of limitation in the rules. It was cool. But that does not mean I despise the tools of modern technology in current use by DCI; nor does it mean I want design to go back to that time period. And if a green pallet (the field) can be changed to white as a tool for visual performance enhancement that is no different than changing a uniform from green to white. No disagreement there. SCV used to be super lame. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 9 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: BOA doesnt go to stadiums without artificial surfaces yes they do - just not for regionals - I've been at many BOA shows with grass (unless this is a brand new thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Stu said: If the tarp is an integral part of the show design, y'all better get whacked hard in loss of visual points at performances in which it is not in use; and if the tarp is not really an integral part of the show design, as in enough to lose visual point impact when not in use, then what a colossal waste of money, time, and effort for the tarp! Well, if Corps are not going to be heavily deducted in scores when ( for just one example )a sound engineering malfunction causes either a brass solo or a singer's voice to be completely botched in performance in its delivery to both audience and judges ears alike, 'not sure a tarp's non usage due to weather would be, Stu. Edited January 15, 2019 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Stu said: Tarps in winter guard were implimented first and foremost as a practicality to protect the wooden basketball courts, and artistic design followed thereafter. That is a fact. True. High School Football fields were first designed and implemented for football games play and competition. Not outdoor MB/ Drum Corps competitions. Some of the early Drum & Bugle Corps competitions at the VFW/AL even chose their Champions that season with the competition indoors, not on any School's Football field. Edited January 15, 2019 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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