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Arsenal Drum Corps Offers Tuition Discount To Pioneer/Oregon Crusaders Vets


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5 minutes ago, MikeD said:

That is certainly a possibility. As I stated in a different post, I probably would not have made the decision Dan made, but even the Arsenal director stated that he broke the rules. We can't really have it both ways. We want DCI to act, unless we don't want them to act. We raise holy heck when they do nothing, and we raise it when they do something, because it is not in line with our wishes. 

No rulebook is ever perfect, and no rule is enforced in a vacuum.

There's a big difference between wanting them to act quickly on matters of sexual assault and abuse of minors, and thinking they should probably look the other way when a courageous young director reaches out to try and help the young people who were affected by abusive administrations.

...or better yet, reach out to the guy and ask him to modify his statement to conform to the rules instead of flat-out denying his corps' application to open class. You know, enforce the rules without being heartless monsters. The way Dan handled it speaks volumes about his character.

Edited by jeffmolnar
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39 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said:

You're right that very few large companies would let it slide. Very few large companies operate honorably when it comes to things like this.

That doesn't make me wrong though. If a large company fires someone for stating something true about climate change with the company name under theirs, that's also evil, and that company would be raked over the coals on modern social media.

In any case, this is beside the actual point. You just wrote out the predictable explanation that everyone already knows. No one cares if Dan is was able to kill Arsenal on a technicality that was in the rulebook. The action is still disgusting, especially considering how slow to act he was with the actual issues that were putting young people at risk. He takes his sweet time there, but is able to swiftly punish the one decent corps director who was willing to publicly condemn that which every decent human must condemn.

That is disgusting behavior. I don't care if it's supported by some bylaw. In that case, the bylaw is also disgusting, as is whoever is responsible for it.

honor has nothing to do with it. it's called companies have policies and employees follow them or get fired. Trust me...where I work...I know thousands of employees didn't follow the rules, and were let go. managers that directed those employees to follow the rules were fired. a CEO was fired and board members resigned. Why? They broke rules, and costly ones to customers and the company.

Remember, in A Few Good Men....they were still guilty. Why? They knew the Code Red was wrong, but did it anyway.

Downey: I don't understand... Colonel Jessup said he ordered the Code Red.
Galloway: I know, but...
Downey: Colonel Jessup said he ordered the Code Red! What did we do wrong?
Galloway: It's not that simple...
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!
Dawson: Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willie.
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21 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 One of the transformations we have learned here on DCP the last year or so in our discussions was what power DCI HQ had over its member Corps.

 We recall a few posters believing at the time that DCI HQ was nothing more than essentially a " show scheduler ". That phrase, comment is still on here from less than a year ago. We had good debate and discussions on this point, ie just what authority did DCI HQ actually have.

 Since that time, we have witnessed DCI HQ exert considerable unilateral power over membership Corps... from Suspensions, to Probations, to Financial Books scrutiny, to Corps Director rebukes and punishments, to withdrawal notices for both application to Class, and revocation rights to competition.

 DCI HQ we have learned... if we had not already.... is far more than just a toothless, "show scheduler ".

 The question still remains however,  do they apply their " rules and regulations " in an even handed, consistent faction across the board, and irrespective of a person and Corps status in DCI ? There is real concern that DCI HQ's implementation of penalties for violations of its policies and procedures is perhaps arbitrary, capricious, and inconsistent.... and its penalties metered out show that its priorities needs fine tuning, to say the least.

the rules changed in April. NOW they have some power.NOW they have to be smart and even across the board in how they wield it  

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Just now, Jeff Ream said:

honor has nothing to do with it. it's called companies have policies and employees follow them or get fired. Trust me...where I work...I know thousands of employees didn't follow the rules, and were let go. managers that directed those employees to follow the rules were fired. a CEO was fired and board members resigned. Why? They broke rules, and costly ones to customers and the company.

Remember, in A Few Good Men....they were still guilty. Why? They knew the Code Red was wrong, but did it anyway.

Downey: I don't understand... Colonel Jessup said he ordered the Code Red.
Galloway: I know, but...
Downey: Colonel Jessup said he ordered the Code Red! What did we do wrong?
Galloway: It's not that simple...
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!
Dawson: Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willie.

Yeah, yeah. Some of the greatest heroes in human history were technically criminals during their lifetime. Today, we don't celebrate the people who jailed them. We celebrate the heroes.

Note that I'm not comparing what this director did to what our historical heroes did. I'm simply pointing out that just because something is a rule, just because it's actionable, just because "everyone else is doing it," does. not. make. it. right.

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15 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Its way too early to determine Dan Acheson's effects on this Drum Corps. The punitive action here may have indeed mortally wounded this Drum Corps future quest of its stated goal of attaining Open Class status in DCI.  The heavy handed hammer that was dropped on the Arsenal Organization by DCI HQ might just have been a crushing blow that hurts recruiting, donations, branding, etc there..  I believe its entirely likely now that Arsenal will never attain Open Class Status in the future, now that its young and ambitious Founder and Corps Director was essentially " killed off " by DCI HQ this week, MikeD.

or, if all of the online support that has sprouted the last few days from people who admittedly never heard of them...donations will flow in and kids will flock to them.

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12 minutes ago, MikeD said:

That is certainly a possibility. As I stated in a different post, I probably would not have made the decision Dan made, but even the Arsenal director stated that he broke the rules. We can't really have it both ways. We want DCI to act, unless we don't want them to act. We raise holy heck when they do nothing, and we raise it when they do something, because it is not in line with our wishes. 

said that the other day...#####ing DCi did nothing. Now they did something and #####ing that they did it.

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40 minutes ago, Stu said:

Based on the info available to me right now is it the decision I would have made, no. But I stand by the fact that it was Dan's call to make; and I believe tough calls are made everyday by human leaders who often times have to take hits from from those who disagree. That is what leadership entails. And whether we like it or not humans are fallible, even those in charge of making decisions like Lotz and Acheson. But that does not mean we should resort to "off with his head" mentality with Acheson. It may be time for leadership change in DCI; that is a subject which can be discussed. But the Arsenal Director admitted to the violation; Dan as DCI CEO made a call which was rightfully his to make. It is that simple.

 I do not believe there is much dispute here that DCI HQ did not have the authority to act as they did here though Stu. This was a position that a couple of posters ( one no longer on here posting ) once had, ie, that DCI HQ has little to no power over Corps. But this years events have demonstrated quite convincingly it seems to me that DCI HQ has enormous unilateral authority ( and has for decades in my view ) to revoke a Corps participation, and on any number of violations both on and off the field too. And has exercised that power a number of times over the years too.. How many Corps this year alone were suspended, or put on probation,  or disbarred from DCI membership/ participation by DCI HQ ? DCI HQ might tell a press reporter on occasion it has no authority over its member Corps, but its actions over the years tell quite the different story on this in reality.

 So I have not read on here lately than Dan A had no authority to act as he did when he saw the Arsenal former Corps Director's acknowledged violation of DCI's media policy. The central question.. and focus.. both here and around other Social Media outlets is whether DCI HQ's penalty imposed on this Organization itself was appropriate or not..  But its not in much dispute here or elsewhere on whether or not DCI HQ has such powers and authority under its Charter to do as it did, Stu.

Edited by BRASSO
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8 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said:

No rulebook is ever perfect, and no rule is enforced in a vacuum.

There's a big difference between wanting them to act quickly on matters of sexual assault and abuse of minors, and thinking they should probably look the other way when a courageous young director reaches out to try and help the young people who were affected by abusive administrations.

...or better yet, reach out to the guy and ask him to modify his statement to conform to the rules instead of flat-out denying his corps' application to open class. You know, enforce the rules without being heartless monsters. The way Dan handled it speaks volumes about his character.

no one is letting DCi off the hook for their willful ignorance of kids being abused since 1972. No one. Not one person who has stated they get why DCI acted the way did towards Arsenal has given DCI a clean sate on their willful ignorance of how kids were treated.

No one.

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37 minutes ago, Stu said:

And whether we like it or not humans are fallible, even those in charge of making decisions like Lotz and Acheson. But that does not mean we should resort to "off with his head" mentality with Acheson. It may be time for leadership change in DCI; that is a subject which can be discussed. 

The “off with his head” mentality with Atcheson is a cumulative effect from how DCI has mishandled a variety of scandals this past year. But this last fiasco is the boulder that broke the camel’s back.

The penalty imposed on Arsenal was completely disproportionate to the “crime.”

Edited by Jurassic Lancer
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2 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said:

Yeah, yeah. Some of the greatest heroes in human history were technically criminals during their lifetime. Today, we don't celebrate the people who jailed them. We celebrate the heroes.

Note that I'm not comparing what this director did to what our historical heroes did. I'm simply pointing out that just because something is a rule, just because it's actionable, just because "everyone else is doing it," does. not. make. it. right.

The board of directors who wrote the rule disagree.

 

I think it was too heavy handed. But you've been #####ing for years DCI didn't do anything about anything. Now they have and you're #####ing about what they did. and you is you personally and the collective you. Jesus Christ himself couldn't please some people on here.

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