Lance Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I'm still deciding. I know my support isn't really a concern for DCI, and I know I'm not more important than anybody else. I just really have a hard time with how DCI has handled the grotesque stuff outlined in several news articles. Look what it took for DCI to finally end Roman's influence. Far too much, and all under the facade of "hey, we can't police individual corps" idiocy. Maybe DCI will actually address the issues in these months leading up to the season, but so far, all they've really done is try to weather the storm and do nothing substantive to protect marchers and staff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMaster Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: very few changes of the on field product led to the demise of corps. the lack of funding and business acumen/approach is what killed corps Yes that is true and a lack of funding was a contributor to the ability of a corps to develop their product. The thinking was that they could still be progressive enough in show design to stay competitive. But the fell behind fast. Corps were certainly not progressive enough to understand the business and operational needs were as important as the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Land_Surfer said: Yup, brass and percussion warm-ups attract the most. just because everyone uses electronics doesn't make it right. Drum corps and marching bands cannot afford the quality of equipment to compliment the natural stereophonic sounds created by brass and percussion. Today's result is a pestering sound detracting from the sound quality and purity of the ensemble. Just because you don't think it's not right doesn't make it "not drum corps." Yes, the permeation of so much electronics is a strain financially, and that strain is amplified on smaller groups. But those that want to compete at the top levels figure out ways to do so. It's the nature of... really everything. Hell, I would tell you to go listen to a concert by a concert band, wind ensemble, or symphony orchestra if you want your jollies, but so much music with electronics is being performed by those groups as well. Grow up, or wake up, one of the two. It isn't going away. And sorry Hockey Dad if that isn't compelling enough for you, but it's the #### truth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besson57 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) On 3/10/2019 at 1:51 PM, JimF-LowBari said: I keep seeing no more support and can’t tell if the posters mean no more donations, no more volunteering or just not going to shows anymore. Hey if people don’t like what is in the field, why show up? And it’s their money and time so who has the right to slam. I love what's on the field. When I say I'm done supporting DCI, I mean: not buying tickets and canceled my FloMarching subscription (this hurts me. It's something I'm going to miss this summer), not sending corps donations (This hurts the corps...but, the corps are DCI...they need to feel the pain to know it's time to change. My yearly donations were low-mid 4 figures spread among several corps.) The Arsenal fiasco was the final straw on the camel's back for me. But the atrocious mis-handling and lack of action to take out the predator and predator-enabling trash is the bigger reason they've lost my support. And it's why I think this thread is so important. Edited March 12, 2019 by besson57 parenthetical thought fixes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 7 hours ago, Lance said: I'm still deciding. I know my support isn't really a concern for DCI, and I know I'm not more important than anybody else. I just really have a hard time with how DCI has handled the grotesque stuff outlined in several news articles. Look what it took for DCI to finally end Roman's influence. Far too much, and all under the facade of "hey, we can't police individual corps" idiocy. Maybe DCI will actually address the issues in these months leading up to the season, but so far, all they've really done is try to weather the storm and do nothing substantive to protect marchers and staff. they are getting there. i never expected it to be fixed overnight, and i think too many people thought it could be 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lance said: I'm still deciding. I know my support isn't really a concern for DCI, and I know I'm not more important than anybody else. I just really have a hard time with how DCI has handled the grotesque stuff outlined in several news articles. Look what it took for DCI to finally end Roman's influence. Far too much, and all under the facade of "hey, we can't police individual corps" idiocy. Maybe DCI will actually address the issues in these months leading up to the season, but so far, all they've really done is try to weather the storm and do nothing substantive to protect marchers and staff. Could Dan and the DCI front office have called the police if they thought illegal activities were going on, especially when youth are involved? Yes. However, it appears to me with what has been made public that there was not enough solid evidence presented to DCI and Dan in order to warrent getting the police involved. And sense no solid evidence was presented, and I might be a rarity in my stance, but before I ask what the DCI front office should have done without solid evidence I ask what they could have done according to the former DCI rules, regulations, and bylaws set forth by the member corps. If the former DCI regulations prevented the DCI front office from intervening in the internal affairs of individual corps Dan was correct in not intervening; again unless solid evidence was presented to get the police involved. Edited March 12, 2019 by Stu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Stu said: Could Dan and the DCI front office have called the police if they thought illegal activities were going on, especially when youth are involved? Yes. However, it appears to me with what has been made public that there was not enough solid evidence presented to DCI and Dan in order to warrent getting the police involved. And sense no solid evidence was presented, and I might be a rarity in my stance, but before I ask what the DCI front office should have done without solid evidence I ask what they could have done according to the former DCI rules, regulations, and bylaws set forth by the member corps. If the former DCI regulations prevented the DCI front office from intervening in the internal affairs of individual corps Dan was correct in not intervening; again unless solid evidence was presented to get the police involved. I will respond to this one stu as saw the same line of thought with Penn State and I totally disagree with it. It is not DCI or any higher authority to determine if there is enough evidence to get police involved. It is the responsibility of the police and legal system to investigate and determine if further action is needed. Your line of reasoning is making DCI a criminal investigating agency which they are not. It is DCIs job to report (which corps should have done anyway) any suspected wrong doing. And to be clear I am talking about anything possibly illegal. Not to mention the bias involved of an entity (PSU/DCI) investigating something knowing it could hit their bottom line. Edited March 12, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, JimF-LowBari said: I will respond to this one stu as saw the same line of thought with Penn State and I totally disagree with it. It is not DCI or any higher authority to determine if there is enough evidence to get police involved. It is the responsibility of the police and legal system to investigate and determine if further action is needed. Your line of reasoning is making DCI a criminal investigating agency which they are not. It is DCIs job to report (which corps should have done anyway) any suspected wrong doing. And to be clear I am talking about anything possibly illegal. Not to mention the bias involved of an entity (PSU/DCI) investigating something knowing it could hit their bottom line. No, my line is that determining to get Police, Sheriff, FBI involved is a very, very, very serious situation. It takes way more information than what Dan and the DCI front office was made aware of. Please cite the varified and immediate danger information, that you know for certain, Dan and the DCI front office actually received prior to the current situation which would have risen to the level of them actually calling the police, child welfare services, etc. Remember, calling the authorities on mere innuendo, or third party contact, or invarified gripes, can lead to charges of false police reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Stu said: Could Dan and the DCI front office have called the police if they thought illegal activities were going on, especially when youth are involved? Yes. However, it appears to me with what has been made public that there was not enough solid evidence presented to DCI and Dan in order to warrent getting the police involved. And sense no solid evidence was presented, and I might be a rarity in my stance, but before I ask what the DCI front office should have done without solid evidence I ask what they could have done according to the former DCI rules, regulations, and bylaws set forth by the member corps. If the former DCI regulations prevented the DCI front office from intervening in the internal affairs of individual corps Dan was correct in not intervening; again unless solid evidence was presented to get the police involved. Don’t know about that related to Cadets, pretty much everyone knew what a wrecking ball he was on and off the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Stu said: No, my line is that determining to get Police, Sheriff, FBI involved is a very, very, very serious situation. It takes way more information than what Dan and the DCI front office was made aware of. Please cite the varified and immediate danger information, that you know for certain, Dan and the DCI front office actually received prior to the current situation which would have risen to the level of them actually calling the police, child welfare services, etc. Remember, calling the authorities on mere innuendo, or third party contact, or invarified gripes, can lead to charges of false police reporting. First off if you are waiting for immediate danger before you call law enforcement you are waiting too #### long. And I am talking in general not any specific instance. Second I am only talking about notifying first level law enforcement meaning police. I said nothing about FBI or child welfare. Lastly you can call the police to report third party contacts for suspected illegal activities. IOW someone told me that... But you’d better tell law enforcement that it is third hand but you think there might be something to it. BTW what is an “invarified gripe”? IMO it’s law enforcements job to verify, not the person hearing it to check then maybe call. And to repeat you said DCI did not have enough “solid evidence” to call police. I’m reading that as you’re saying DCI is determining if anything illegal went on. My point is it is not DCIs job to determine illegality, it is the job of law enforcement to do this. Especially since DCI investigating one of its corps is a conflict of interest as it could affect DCIs bottom line. Just sticks in my head as was a big excuse for PSU defenders..... Edited March 12, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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