Fran Haring Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, jpaul said: No. The concept of DADA doesn't meant of poor quality. It's nonsense, not meant to be understood. That would come into pay in the design and effect captions. Not so much in performance. Personally, I have never understood poor performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 4 hours ago, jpaul said: No. The concept of DADA doesn't meant of poor quality. It's nonsense, not meant to be understood. That would come into pay in the design and effect captions. Not so much in performance. That is why I stated that BD was in a paradoxical conundrum. If they had represented the true Dada which existed at Caberet Voltaire they would have been in direct conflict with the GE sheets and scored at or near zero; and moreover, they would have been in direct conflict with the commercialism of DCI itself. So, by designing a show concept which could win DCI they actually insulted and disrespected the very idea of Caberet Voltaire and Dada. Sort of Dada in reverse! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) On 2/21/2019 at 6:15 PM, Fran Haring said: So if BD that year played out of tune, marched out of step, and generally looked and sounded like stumblebums who couldn't get out of their own way, would that be Dada? Real Dada cannot be done today because one of the main elements was artistic rebellion against WWI and other cultural aspects of that time period. However, here are some modern avant-garde performance examples that I have seen by John Cage and other artists that reflect Dada: Fifteen-minute lecture of nonsense sentences spoken slowly at quarter-speed so that it took one-hour to complete. Question-answer session where no matter the question asked only one of six prepared answers was provided based on rolling a single dice. Clown walking by on stilts for no apparent reason whatsoever. Someone randomly turning on and off ten radios over a two-hour time period. Something called danger music. The example was someone screaming while running through a number of plate glass windows. And yes they ended up in the hospital. On purpose. And of course the famous 4:33. Edited February 23, 2019 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KVG_DC Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Stu said: Real Dada cannot be done today because one of the main elements was artistic rebellion against WWI and other cultural aspects of that time period. However, here are some modern avant-garde performance examples that I have seen by John Cage and other artists that reflect Dada: Clown walking by on stilts for no apparent reason whatsoever. So, you're saying Mandarins did it better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, KVG_DC said: So, you're saying Mandarins did it better? I guess I missed seeing that in their show. Anyway, better for DCI GE scoring, possibly. Better for representing the art of Dada, nope. And for the same reasons BD failed miserably at representing Dada even though BD won DCI with a show about Dada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 7 hours ago, jpaul said: No. The concept of DADA doesn't meant of poor quality. It's nonsense, not meant to be understood. That would come into pay in the design and effect captions. Not so much in performance. well, thats that show to a tee! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: well, thats that show to a tee! We have had this discussion before. The show deserved to win; it was written to the sheets; it was performed very well; it was goofy, silly, and wacky; it did make sense in that it was a structured musical about the subject of Caberet Voltaire. All of that is true. But what is also true is it also failed miserably at being Dada. For it to have been Dada, the art on the field would have been in rebellion of the DCI judging sheets; it would have been in rebellion of DCI commercialism; it would have been in rebellion of winning DCI. Thus a winning DCI show 'about' Dada cannot, by definition, be anywhere close to actually 'being' Dada. The designers may have realized this, but by trying to present this to the audience using the vehicle of DCI, with the intent to win instead of rebellion art against the establishment of DCI, they in fact insulted the Dada movement and the Caberet Voltaire. Like I stated earlier, Dada in reverse. Edited February 23, 2019 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, Stu said: And for the same reasons BD failed miserably at representing Dada even though BD won DCI with a show about Dada. The only thing they have to fail is failure itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, skevinp said: The only thing they have to fail is failure itself. Little know tidbit from history. That is actually what FDR was supposed to say, but they did not have teleprompters back then, and there was a water smudge on his paper on that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Stu said: And of course the famous 4:33. You may want to do more research on Dadaism. First, 4’33” isn’t Dada, as the movement all but died off in Paris in the 1920’s, and the Cage premiered in NYC in 1952. Just because what Cage did could be considered Avant-garde it was not Dada. It was chance music. As for your other examples of Dada, you may want to dig a little deeper. Back to BD, the show was in the Dada style, which was not defined as you’re trying to do with your examples. You’re trying to put Dada in a box and define it, and with this movement you simply can’t, much like the BD show. Stating that they should have gotten low score if it was truly Dada clearly shows you know nothing about Dadaism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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