New show announcements request

[Stu]

2 hours ago, tesmusic said:

You may want to do more research on Dadaism. 

First, 4’33” isn’t Dada, as the movement all but died off in Paris in the 1920’s, and the Cage premiered in NYC in 1952. Just because what Cage did could be considered Avant-garde it was not Dada. It was chance music.

As for your other examples of Dada, you may want to dig a little deeper.

Back to BD, the show was in the Dada style, which was not defined as you’re trying to do with your examples. You’re trying to put Dada in a box and define it, and with this movement you simply can’t, much like the BD show. Stating that they should have gotten low score if it was truly Dada clearly shows you know nothing about Dadaism.

While Dada was specific to a time period and and cultural subject matter, it actually spread throughout Europe and slightly across the pond. It mainly died out because the war ended and the artists maintained their rebellion against commercialism. So no real Dada exists today.

However, it directly influenced both surealism and avent-garde which in turn influenced the more modern like punk and danger music. All of which carried on the tradition of rebelling against artistic norms, but with the exception of current danger music, did end up going commercial. Thus they, as I stated, reflect.

Also notice that commercial corruption destroys the heart of the movements. Dali, Worhal, etc enjoyed them some commercial studio 54!! As for BD...

BD was a case of writing a goofy, wacky show entitled Caberet Voltaire and attempted to tell a story, but it was certainly in complience with established artistic norms; their goal from the start was to win in a commercial setting not to rebel against anything. Which, more to the point, flies directly against the Dada manifesto and spits at it. Therefore it could not have even been in the style of Dada but more resembled pop-art which was intended gor commercial from the get-go. Unless, of course, one states that rebelling agaist Dada is a form of Dada in reverse, which is what I have also written.

You can disagree, but to state someone else knows nothing is down-right academic snobbery. Just sayin'.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Stu

[tesmusic]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

While Dada was specific to a time period and and cultural subject matter, it actually spread throughout Europe and slightly across the pond. It mainly died out because the war endef and the artists maintained their rebellion against commercialism. However, it directly influenced both surealism and avent-garde which in turn influenced the more modern like pop-art, punk, and danger music. All of which carried on the tradition of rebelling against artistic norms, but did end up going commercial. Thus they, as I stated, reflect. Also notice that commercial corruption destroys the heart of the movements. Dali, Worhal, etc enjoyed them some commercial studio 54!! As for BD...

BD was a case of writing a goofy, wacky show entitled Caberet Voltaire and attempted to tell a story, but it was certainly in complience with established artistic norms; their goal from the start was to win in a commercial setting not to rebel against anything. Which, more to the point, flies directly against the Dada manifesto and spits at it. Therefore it could not have even been in the style of Dada but more resembled pop-art which was intended gor commercial from the get-go. Unless, of course, one states that rebelling agaist Dada is a form of Dada in reverse, which is what I have also written.

You can disagree, but to state someone else knows nothing is down-right academic snobbery. Just sayin'.

Read what I write. I suggested you do more research. 

[Stu]

5 hours ago, tesmusic said:

Read what I write. I suggested you do more research. 

I did read carefully, including the Dada manifesto, and have done extensive research; we just disagree. We both have studied but have just come to different conclusions. I am not saying I am right and you are wrong, merely presenting my argument.

However, you certainly are not showing in kind recprication of respecting conclusions other than your own; you just state I know nothing and suggest I do more research. And it is academic snobbery, 'that I am right and you go do more research', which in my opinion is destroying the true definition of liberal education. We are not talking objective math here, 2+2 cannot equal 27 in base 10. But we are talking about subjectivity in art and other social constructs.

There was a time in the not so distant past when art, social, etc professors fostered students to come to conclusions apart from their own; they encouraged the freedom of thought; and as long as the argument had merit they would give an A to a student who disagreed with them. That is true education. But not any more. It is my way or you get an F. So much for encouraging individual thought, and welcome to indoctrination.

I wonder what the original Dadists would think about there is only one correct interpritation, yours.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Stu

[wallace]

On 2/19/2019 at 9:14 PM, Herk said:

BK tried the shorter announcement route back in 2012 when they announced Avian.  The result:  Nobody knew what the show was about.

Sometimes more is better.

Perhaps it was a problem of the show’s design rather than its announcement.

[tesmusic]

5 hours ago, Stu said:

I did read carefully, including the Dada manifesto, and have done extensive research; we just disagree. We both have studied but have just come to different conclusions. I am not saying I am right and you are wrong, merely presenting my argument.

However, you certainly are not showing in kind recprication of respecting conclusions other than your own; you just state I know nothing and suggest I do more research. And it is academic snobbery, 'that I am right and you go do more research', which in my opinion is destroying the true definition of liberal education. We are not talking objective math here, 2+2 cannot equal 27 in base 10. But we are talking about subjectivity in art and other social constructs.

There was a time in the not so distant past when art, social, etc professors fostered students to come to conclusions apart from their own; they encouraged the freedom of thought; and as long as the argument had merit they would give an A to a student who disagreed with them. That is true education. But not any more. It is my way or you get an F. So much for encouraging individual thought, and welcome to indoctrination.

I wonder what the original Dadists would think about there is only one correct interpritation, yours.

Wow, you’ve got far too much time on your hands and are desperately looking to read far deeper into things than necessary. Feel free to continue, but I’m done here. As for the whole Dada conversation, I’ll say again, check your sources and education on it. You’re quite off, at least from accurate sources.

[Stu]

40 minutes ago, tesmusic said:

Wow, you’ve got far too much time on your hands and are desperately looking to read far deeper into things than necessary. Feel free to continue, but I’m done here. As for the whole Dada conversation, I’ll say again, check your sources and education on it. You’re quite off, at least from accurate sources.

After careful consideration I concede to you that you are correct. I am quite off since my primary sources, Hugo Ball and Tristan Tzara; are just not accurate. It is the selected by you educated evaluations of more accurate, intellectual, ivory-tower historians and professors, with whom I am not worthy to converse with, that have a lock on correct interpritation. Again, I wonder what the Dadaists would think about your determination. But all we need to do is read what Ball and Tzara wrote to find that answer.

[N.E. Brigand]

Blue Devils's "Cabaret Voltaire" is perhaps best understood as a show about Dada.

[Stu]

6 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Blue Devils's "Cabaret Voltaire" is perhaps best understood as a show about Dada.

As long as you say the movies, National Treasure and Blazing Saddles, are 'about' American History in the same manner I will agree with ya.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Stu

[Jeff Ream]

On 2/23/2019 at 12:28 AM, Stu said:

We have had this discussion before. The show deserved to win; it was written to the sheets; it was performed very well; it was goofy, silly, and wacky; it did make sense in that it was a structured musical about the subject of Caberet Voltaire. All of that is true. But what is also true is it also failed miserably at being Dada.

For it to have been Dada, the art on the field would have been in rebellion of the DCI judging sheets; it would have been in rebellion of DCI commercialism; it would have been in rebellion of winning DCI. Thus a winning DCI show 'about' Dada cannot, by definition, be anywhere close to actually 'being' Dada.

The designers may have realized this, but by trying to present this to the audience using the vehicle of DCI, with the intent to win instead of rebellion art against the establishment of DCI, they in fact insulted the Dada movement and the Caberet Voltaire. Like I stated earlier, Dada in reverse.

oh i don't disagree it got the score and placement it should have it is however not to be viewed or listened to in my house again. 

[Stu]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

oh i don't disagree it got the score and placement it should have it is however not to be viewed or listened to in my house again. 

Yet another anomole where we are in agreement. This is rather frightening!