DCI FINALS .... of just The Cadet (Holy Name, Garfield, Bergen, etc) shows.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, BigW said:

I remember the 1984 clinic where George Zingali discussed the show at length with us. He said that it was a very open and deeply collaborative effort between Jim Prime, Jr., Thom Hannum, and himself. Never heard the Director at that time mentioned as a major design/process contributor to the program. Period. I hope that helps you in regards to your feelings, Stu. It certainly helps with mine. 

Marge Schott, George Steinbrenner, Jerry Jones,.... we never heard coaches praise them for their on the field major play design either, period. In fact when those teams won their respective titles there were still complaints about the administrative direction from the top; Jimmy Johnson even quit after winning multiple times because of Jones. But the fact remains it was their calls on who were hired as coaches/players, and it was 'their' teams which won the titles.

I hate the idea of revisionist history, so In the same manner the 1984 Cadets was George Hopkins corps irrespective of the current situation; it was under his leadership in which he hired the staff and allowed them to produce that show. And the fact Zingali gave no credit to Hopkins for putting together such a great staff says volumes. But we are in a situation where, if convicted, Hopkins will go down as worse than any of the aforementioned sports owners. And his corps from 1984 will be tainted.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Stu

[BigW]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Marge Schott, George Steinbrenner, Jerry Jones,.... we never heard coaches praise them for their on the field major play design either, period. In fact when those teams won their respective titles there were still complaints about the administrative direction from the top; Jimmy Johnson even quit after winning multiple times because of Jones. But the fact remains it was their calls on who were hired as coaches/players, and it was 'their' teams which won the titles.

I hate the idea of revisionist history, so In the same manner the 1984 Cadets was George Hopkins corps irrespective of the current situation; it was under his leadership in which he hired the staff and allowed them to produce that show. And the fact Zingali gave no credit to Hopkins for putting together such a great staff says volumes. But we are in a situation where, if convicted, Hopkins will go down as worse than any of the aforementioned sports owners. And his corps from 1984 will be tainted.

Many Pennsylvanians have already wrangled with this issue. I think it depends on the individual and the degree one wishes to place credit and blame on the administrative failings versus the performers/athletes.

[Stu]

2 hours ago, BigW said:

Many Pennsylvanians have already wrangled with this issue. I think it depends on the individual and the degree one wishes to place credit and blame on the administrative failings versus the performers/athletes.

When a corps does extremely well many people give most if not all credit to the hard working dedicated talented youth, and may state something but not much about the staff, and zero about the Board. However when that same corps does poorly the blame goes directly to the administration and staff while the youth are still praised for their hard work and dedication. But in all honesty both credit and blame should be given holistically.. So while the youth did great for all those top shows, the fact that Hopkins was in charge and deserves credit is warrented. And to try and disassociate him from that now in the name of a criminal indictment or conviction would be revisionist history.

[Terri Schehr]

8 hours ago, Stu said:

Marge Schott, George Steinbrenner, Jerry Jones,.... we never heard coaches praise them for their on the field major play design either, period. In fact when those teams won their respective titles there were still complaints about the administrative direction from the top; Jimmy Johnson even quit after winning multiple times because of Jones. But the fact remains it was their calls on who were hired as coaches/players, and it was 'their' teams which won the titles.

I hate the idea of revisionist history, so In the same manner the 1984 Cadets was George Hopkins corps irrespective of the current situation; it was under his leadership in which he hired the staff and allowed them to produce that show. And the fact Zingali gave no credit to Hopkins for putting together such a great staff says volumes. But we are in a situation where, if convicted, Hopkins will go down as worse than any of the aforementioned sports owners. And his corps from 1984 will be tainted.

I have a good Marge Schott story but that would be going way OT.  

[Jeff Ream]

13 hours ago, Stu said:

But I guarentee you those in the symphony who knew of Wagner's vile opinions were still jaded at some capacity. Sure they enjoyed the music, but it was tainted. As for Cosby, I love to quote his humor and used to always gave him credit. However, if I attribute it to him now, it is still funny, but the person I am speaking with typically cringes at his name. Moreover, I cringe even if I do not mention him because it is now hard to think about who originated the story or joke. Innocence lost is a hard pill to swallow, even now as an older adult who has swallowed a lot of pills.

It's no secret I was rarely a fan of anything Hopkins, yet I still cheered the corps and enjoyed the good to incredible shows in spite of him. That's the biggest issue...because of Hop being Hop, it became too hard for many to separate the two. Hopkins WAS NOT the Cadets all by himself no matter how hard he or others tried to make it be so

[Stu]

5 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

It's no secret I was rarely a fan of anything Hopkins, yet I still cheered the corps and enjoyed the good to incredible shows in spite of him. That's the biggest issue...because of Hop being Hop, it became too hard for many to separate the two. Hopkins WAS NOT the Cadets all by himself no matter how hard he or others tried to make it be so

While Hopkins was not the Cadets by himself, to seperate him out because of feeling queasy about his current situation is just as much of an error. Honesty demands that the corps must be viewed holistically; including Hopkins' role as leader and director during those years.

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, Stu said:

While Hopkins was not the Cadets by himself, to seperate him out because of feeling queasy about his current situation is just as much of an error. Honesty demands that the corps must be viewed holistically; including Hopkins' role as leader and director during those years.

regardless of liking Hop or not, you have to give props to what was performed. While Cosby's actions should have gotten him the chair, he still did revolutionary comedy, and anytime someone says "Noah" in that Cosbyesque delivery, i laugh. 

[Stu]

16 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

regardless of liking Hop or not, you have to give props to what was performed. While Cosby's actions should have gotten him the chair, he still did revolutionary comedy, and anytime someone says "Noah" in that Cosbyesque delivery, i laugh. 

Yes, but a cringe is now also a proper reaction.

[boxingfred]

Stu,                 Stu.

Edited March 16, 2019 by boxingfred

[boxingfred]

14 hours ago, Stu said:

While Hopkins was not the Cadets by himself, to seperate him out because of feeling queasy about his current situation is just as much of an error. Honesty demands that the corps must be viewed holistically; including Hopkins' role as leader and director during those years.

1

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Edited March 16, 2019 by boxingfred