Sign in to follow this  
PopcornEater1963

Old Man DCI was cool...

Recommended Posts

On 3/11/2019 at 11:25 AM, Jeff Ream said:

thanks for sharing. if you think the Forums are full of grumpy old men, i'd like to direct you to the DCP facebook page.

 Yes.. this forum is not overly filled with those who dislike today's modern Drum Corps at all, imo.  There are plenty of sites out there, ie" DCP Facebook", ..." Pre 1980 DCI", and several others that are filled with these folks, many of whom have not been to a DCI show in decades. So the OP's thread really is not aimed at the typical current DCP'er here, imo, as those forum participants are no longer here to any large degree, imo.

Edited by BRASSO
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Yes.. this forum is not overly filled with those who dislike today's modern Drum Corps at all, imo.  There are plenty of sites out there, ie" DCP Facebook", ..." Pre 1980 DCI", and several others that are filled with these folks, many of whom have not been to a DCI show in decades. So the OP's thread really is not aimed at the typical current DCP'er here, imo, as those forum participants are no longer here to any large degree, imo.

Think I used to be on 60s/70s fb group (deactivated the account). Had someone there claim if there wasn’t a starting line it ain’t drum corps. Told him then I didn’t march real dc starting 1974. Then I got the popcorn for the fireworks lol 😛

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Think I used to be on 60s/70s fb group (deactivated the account). Had someone there claim if there wasn’t a starting line it ain’t drum corps. Told him then I didn’t march real dc starting 1974. Then I got the popcorn for the fireworks lol 😛

 Its always been like this.. and likely always will, imo. In 10-15 years ( or less ) when woodwinds or similar are added, they'll be lots of today's marchers/ fans who'll leave as well, claiming " thats not real Drum & Bugle Corps ", and instead pine for the " good old days " of the 2010-2020 version of Drum Corps and such.

Edited by BRASSO
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Its always been like this. In 10-15 years ( or less ) when woodwinds or similar are added, they'll be lots of today's marchers who'll leave as well, claiming " thats not real Drum & Bugle Corps ", and instead pine for the " good old days " of the 2010-2020 version of Drum Corps and such.

That’s my usual when a newer person complains about my bitd posts. “Tell ya what, come back in 10-15 years and tell me how you feel. That is if you’re still following dc”. 

And to be honest bitd I thought I’d always follow dc the same way. Real life and dc changes hit that one good. So I can relate lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BRASSO said:

 A significant percentage of paid attendees at Regionals and Championships are family, friends, girlfriends, boyfriends, of marchers. Not sure precisely that percentage numbers range, but its not an insignificant percentage. Most of this demographic is a one and done demographic, to be replaced by the next group of the " family, friends, girlfriends, boyfriends " percentage sector of Drum Corps attendees in subsequent years. The local shows have a significant percentage in attendance of the local H.S./ College Marching Band supporters...  there to help financially support the sponsoring group. Interspersed with this are the perennial " Jurassic Raptors ", who have been going to shows and supporting the Corps in some cases before todays newbies in current attendance at shows were born.

i tend to believe the regionals and championships draw the true diehards more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Yes.. this forum is not overly filled with those who dislike today's modern Drum Corps at all, imo.  There are plenty of sites out there, ie" DCP Facebook", ..." Pre 1980 DCI", and several others that are filled with these folks, many of whom have not been to a DCI show in decades. So the OP's thread really is not aimed at the typical current DCP'er here, imo, as those forum participants are no longer here to any large degree, imo.

it used to be pretty bad on here. i think several got "need not post here again" notices

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

No doubt. All the things you are saying are true.  There are many more college music majors in DCI today. Then again, not all music majors are great players. I knew many music ed majors who were average at best as players.  Many of the non-major types are terrific musicians. But overall I have long felt that there is more depth in DCI today. 

Another factor to consider is kids taking music lessons. Here in Northeast Ohio it is well known that more kids took private lessons in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Far fewer kids are taking private lessons today while in middle school and high school in our region. This has lowered the general quality of many music majors entering college as freshmen. 

I am totally on board with you when it comes to the WGI effect and have stated this much in other threads.  The guard, in particular, is something that has taken huge leaps over the last 30 years. It's more integrated, scored vastly different, and more young people are training year-around for this type of art form. 

As for percussion, I'd say depth is great and there are more solid-to-good lines from 1st to 25th. But none of this should take away from the great SCV lines in the 70s, the Bridgemen in the early 80s, BD in the 80s, Cadets in the 90s and early 2000s, etc. There was plenty of talent in those lines too. 

The same can be said for brass. I hear better overall depth today, especially when I listen to corps ranked 13th to 25th and lower.  At the same time, how many brass lines in the last 5 to 6 years have played a brass book as technically challenging (not that technique is everything) as what Cadets did in 1997, or Star in 1993? Maybe Carolina Crown 13 and 14. Maybe BD 2017.  Even the Cadets 2015 music book, which is revered today for its' demand, does not compare to their 1997 Celebration book, IMO. At least not from a technical standpoint. My point here is that it took a lot of talent to play those books. So we have to be careful with the word "talent."  The Blue Devils brass line in 1993 was wicked good. They've had brass lines in the 2000s that were not nearly as good, and maybe not as deep. 

If the question is depth, then no doubt I hear better depth today. If the question is: Are the best corps today playing better than some of the best corps from yesteryear? If so then I'd say it's a toss-up. Listen to Blue Devils and Garfield in 1984. Those are tough brass books played incredibly well...on 2-valve G Bugles. Most of us are also familiar with how bad some of those instruments were in terms of make, quality, and age. Bridgemen, 27th Lancers, Garfield, and others all were playing on some really bad instruments in the 70s and 80s. 

Today's brass and percussion instruments are superior.  Especially the marching brass. The pit is larger and more varied with orchestral colors. The corps are larger (150 members now).  All of this, along with more instructors coming from the music teacher ranks, dance, theater, etc., have brought more depth to the activity.

This is a great thing and I am a huge fan of today's youth and their thrilling performances in DCI. Are there things about the show construction today that bother me? In some cases, yes. Do I want a return of the 80s? Heck no. No way. I loved it then, but then was then. Now is now. I love what we are seeing today. There were great music books back in the day, and we hear that today as well. There were also duds back in the day, and we hear that now as well.  We can compare yesteryear to now, and it's fun to look at the differences; but doing so to put-down and belittle one or the other is never going to end well. There was plenty of talent and great shows BITD and that has paved the way for modern DCI. We should all be thankful. 

 

The other thing to consider is this-- The people who marched then were the people who wanted to, showed up, made any cuts, and did the job.  With modern rehearsal technique, instruction technique, all developed during that period and continuously honed and refined....One fellow who posted here a lot and I'm worried about because I have a feeling he's not doing well thought he'd have been a dud now. The Corps Director of his corps saw something in him and made sure he grew and developed, and he marched with a very respectable DCA corps in their best era. I told him, if he could cut it then, with all the above provided to him now...he'd have held his own. There are so, so many factors in play. Your comments about that "purple patch" for Symphonic Band/Wind Ensembles during the late 60's early 70's is well taken and I read articles bemoaning it on the national level in the mid 80's in the Instrumentalist. There might be some credence for it, a recent conversation with an old, old friend touched on it. he reminded me that John Barnes Chance wrote at least two of his classics while in residence at a High School in the South, and wrote them with that HS band in mind. In other words, that band could PLAY if they were just handed Incantation and Dance or Variations on a Korean Folk Song at a rehearsal.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmmmm... i remember DCI doing some onsite demographic study 3 or 4 years ago, collecting data from event attendees or tablets....so i would guess that they probably have a some idea of the demographic profile of the audience at a significant number of events. the hypothsis that a significant portion of the audience at regionals and championship is family/friends might be semi-true, but it may well be that regional events each have a unique audience profile - some with more family, some with more alums, some with more students. I could imagine that the event location is a big factor in determining the audience demographic.

DCI might look at events/shows in a textured fashion, not simply Regional vs. local, but probably factoring in promoter profile, distance people travel to events, density of population, motivation to attend, etc. i would think those would be the sorts of things DCI or any good business would be tracking.

the issue that i suspect many die hard supporters are reluctant to consider is that maybe drum corps as a general rule, is not compelling and engaging enough to those not otherwise engaged to pay as much attention to as those inside the berm would like. hence, i suspect that even local shows are challenged to create new audience members, even with some customers have an non-drum corps allegiance to a companion event (festival? parade?)

Edited by stevedci

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2019 at 4:50 AM, BigW said:

Seen their counter-arguments when I brought this up, that in one case, I insulted Al Chez et al. No insult intended, but a very cold observation.

 

What many of the don't realize is that there were some incredible individuals indeed, and quite, quite capable...they stood far, far out from the norm. The average kid... is an entirely different story.

I looked hard for the McCormick Video "The Challenge" to see if anyone had it up, I have a VHS of it somewhere. It's about a young rookie at Vanguard at their height circa 1975, featuring a "typical' Rookie Baritone player.  The kid's a nice typical kid from that era, somewhere around 13 to 15 years old, I can't remember. For that era, incredibly squared away. 

 

Tell me that kid makes SCV's brass section now, I dare anyone. It would be highly, highly unlikely a kid like that makes it now, yet there he is, in a top end horn line of that era likely ending up with a ring. He'd likely be thought of as too immature, no previous background in corps anywhere... I can go on. 

 

The average/mean musician in these corps is flat out way beyond the mean/average player 40 years ago. It wasn't  all too uncommon in many DCA (and likely some of the DCI units too, prolly on the lower end of the spectrum) corps in that era to have people that couldn't read music in the horn lines. 

 

Fewer spots and opportunities for performers in both DCI and DCA also mean the cream has risen by default. 

 

As for Davis at Cavies if I may use him as an example :worthy:... when I met him as a young man at CV, I can bluntly say he'd push me if we were in the same performing ensemble if I were in practice. Hard. In a very good way. I wasn't a slouch at 16, (PA All-State Band bound) but I have no compunctions saying I think he was better than I was at 16, also playing Lead in a top 6 DCA corps as he was. The horn he used... instruction... a better HS experience, all add up. Just my tuppence. If I pushed him even 1 percent, I'd be flattered.

 

 

I would suggest that the best brass players of the 1970s are just as good as the best brass players today.  The difference is that the weakest players in today's lines are far better than the weakest players BITD.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.