Is the quest for high G.E becoming too dangerous

[MikeD]

2 hours ago, Stu said:

So, if I am understading you correctly, plan B, so to speak, should be able to receive the same score as plan A, even if plan B does not use the added show of choice elements of plan A. Correct?

As long as it is an equivalent design and doesn't look or sound like things are missing. If it stands on its own merits equal to "Plan A", it should receive an equal score, assuming an equal performance level.

[karuna]

Honestly I view this new escalating prop war as designers admitting they're willing to substitute giant props for creativity.    They can't express their ideas using time, space and performers on a flat field so they say "wow isn't this 'innovative' to have our performers climb and stand/sit still on these props" instead of actively moving to create an effect with their bodies, instruments, and space.  I mean if the drill truly was 3 dimensional that would be amazing.  But of course it's NOT 3d;  It's just climb up and stand/sit on the prop.  Then climb down (or maybe slide).  

They're trying to be Blast! when you just can't do Blast! on a field no matter how many props and how many mics/iems/speakers you put on the field.  Blast! was a Broadway stage production and inherently requires a real stage.  A football field is not a stage.  The logical conclusion of current design trend is to literally build a real stage on a football field.  Is that REALLY where the activity should be headed?  Better to simply reduce the performer count and move entirely indoors to a real stage.  

I know there's a fine line between evolving the activity and fundamentally changing it.  IMHO pushing around props and requiring IEMS fundamentally changes the nature of drum corps to something else.   Drum corps has always been a unique activity in that all the performers PERFORM.  No one was a stage hand and (for the most part) there's no going behind the curtain.  Everyone is actively contributing visually and musically.. Now you may have 50 performers whose job it is to push around a prop for part of the show.  And handful of performers carry the virtuosic load via IEMS and mics.  

When performers become stagehands and acoustic becomes entirely electronic is it still marching music?  

The absurdity of this entire shift is that these same designers already have a venue for these sorts of productions.  It's called WGI.   Let's respect the fact those two venues are fundamentally very different.  Can ideas still cross-pollinate?  Absolutely.  But some definitely should not simply because the venues are so radically different. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by karuna

[84BDsop]

4 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

True - rewarded in 1984 IIRC with a perfect marching score!

And NO broken leg...just a sprained ankle and a few damaged horns.

Dude who was injured missed a couple of shows...that was it.

[84BDsop]

On 3/23/2019 at 7:16 PM, Jurassic Lancer said:

If you saw the superstructure underneath, you never would have been scared. It was professionally designed and engineered. 

Reminds me of people freaking out at the sport of fencing being introduced to middle or high schools.  They're stabbing/slashing each other with a 3 foot length of steel...DANGEROUS!!

Actually...the sport is far FAR safer than football if proper gear is worn and you don't do something stupid.   I fence and instruct sabre -- the most aggressive of the three weapons -- and frankly, I've taken more injuries in 2 decades of armory than in 2 decades of fencing.

[BigW]

6 hours ago, Stu said:

So, if I am understading you correctly, plan B, so to speak, should be able to receive the same score as plan A, even if plan B does not use the added show of choice elements of plan A. Correct?

If sufficient effect is demonstrated and achieved given the various challenges and issues... why not? Simple instance which I've seen and heard. Soloist A is too sick. Soloist B is called in that plays a different instrument and still wows the listener and is also superb, but not the choice intent of the music staff. I wouldn't have known that until I was told by the director. Top end groups always have plans and alternates/alternatives for various situations that may happen.

[cixelsyd]

14 hours ago, KVG_DC said:

Actually, the premise you make here may not be entirely correct.  A show designed with 'awesome elements' is not penalized when such elements cannot be performed due to conditions.  But those elements are rewarded when present and able to be performed as designed.

If the score is unaffected by the absence of a design element, there are only two possible explanations:

1.  That design element is of no value.

2.  Judges are not accurately assessing the value of the show without that design element, either via slotting, or a specific forgiveness policy toward problems associated with that design element. 

[Weaklefthand4ever]

8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

odd how most of the issues with tarps I saw last year in DCI and DCA happened only at Championships.

Are the corps being given less time to set up between each performing group or is it just that venue you think?

[Stu]

8 hours ago, MikeD said:

As long as it is an equivalent design and doesn't look or sound like things are missing. If it stands on its own merits equal to "Plan A", it should receive an equal score, assuming an equal performance level.

This should also be the case if plan B is actually plan A. Correct?

[Weaklefthand4ever]

17 hours ago, BigW said:

The educated guess is there were, and how to approach and use the hand grips, body positions down slides, everything had a specific technique that had to be used, period. If they were sticklers, something had to be recited from memory on it and also demonstrated. if someone got sloppy in rehearsal, they were talked to.

And with your shop, absolutely correct not to have anything running like a CNC mill with someone there without proper eye protection, etc

I'm sure you're right, especially with the top tier corps. I haven't had the opportunity to see any of these structures up close other than go-cam footage. And quite frankly, I would probably have no idea of what I was looking at anyways. If it isn't made of wood, I can't tell you a whole lot about it. 

And yeah, the shop can be a dangerous place. Installing emergency stops on everything was just the first of many precautions that I had to learn to take. Plus my CNC is completely open and doesn't have a traditional gantry. It's designed to do one thing....pool cues. And for what it cost, it better last me my whole life.

[Eleran]

8 hours ago, 84BDsop said:

Reminds me of people freaking out at the sport of fencing being introduced to middle or high schools.  

Actually...the sport is far FAR safer than football if proper gear is worn and you don't do something stupid. 

And that's the big "IF".  Middle schools are not known for having the financial wherewithal to buy all the necessary and appropriate equipment.  Middle school teachers are not known for understand everything they should with respect to the sports they teach for 2 weeks a year before moving to something else.  And middle school students are not known for avoiding doing something stupid.  I had to take a fellow fencer to the hospital while fencing at Penn State, because he hadn't put on the appropriate gear and took a foil in the armpit that went on through to his chest cavity (not from me, thankfully).  And Penn State produces national champions in the sport, so it's not like they don't know how to protect people.

And ultimately, that's a lot of the problem with corps:  it's a bunch of musicians, who put themselves in the position of doing a lot of things they're not trained for and not even particularly well-suited to do.  Thus you see corps with financial problems, logistical problems, HR problems, etc.   But we suddenly think that these same artists running corps/DCI will have the knowledge to provide all the necessary safety precautions?  

Edit:  and what's worse - maybe the top corps can pull it off in a safe manner.  But then all the copycats try and do it because that's what the judges are rewarding ... right on down to the high school level, where the average school clearly won't have the financial capacity or knowledge to do it safely.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eleran