Is the quest for high G.E becoming too dangerous

[Ediker]

21 minutes ago, Eleran said:

Edit:  and what's worse - maybe the top corps can pull it off in a safe manner.  But then all the copycats try and do it because that's what the judges are rewarding ... right on down to the high school level, where the average school clearly won't have the financial capacity or knowledge to do it safely.

Good points in your entire post.  Top corps have the advantage of mainly adults in their membership, which distinguishes them from grade school bands and younger corps.

[karuna]

42 minutes ago, Eleran said:

And ultimately, that's a lot of the problem with corps:  it's a bunch of musicians, who put themselves in the position of doing a lot of things they're not trained for and not even particularly well-suited to do.  Thus you see corps with financial problems, logistical problems, HR problems, etc.   But we suddenly think that these same artists running corps/DCI will have the knowledge to provide all the necessary safety precautions?  

Edit:  and what's worse - maybe the top corps can pull it off in a safe manner.  But then all the copycats try and do it because that's what the judges are rewarding ... right on down to the high school level, where the average school clearly won't have the financial capacity or knowledge to do it safely.

So much truth here.  Sure SCV can afford to buy whatever and whoever they want.  But you don't have to move very far down the ladder before corps administrators start having to make HARD CHOICES about how things are done.   And those administrators are mostly drum corps people whose entire life has been spent doing drum corps and high school marching band and not much else.  This is an issue that the entire activity constantly has to confront:  drum corps is an incestuous activity run almost exclusively by insiders.   There's very little real-world experience in most corps and that fact is constantly and painfully obvious 24/7/365.  

And high schools -- you're right again.  They're gonna try to do what they see the big boys doing.

Edited March 25, 2019 by karuna

[GUARDLING]

13 minutes ago, karuna said:

So much truth here.  Sure SCV can afford to buy whatever and whoever they want.  But you don't have to move very far down the ladder before corps administrators start having to make HARD CHOICES about how things are done.   And those administrators are mostly drum corps people whose entire life has been spent doing drum corps and high school marching band and not much else.  This is an issue that the entire activity constantly has to confront:  drum corps is an incestuous activity run by exclusively by insiders.   There's very little real-world experience in most corps and that fact is constantly and painfully obvious 24/7/365.  

And high schools -- you're right again.  They're gonna try to do what they see the big boys doing.

 

Youre mixing up the fact that these HS people are one in the same as Drum Corps people.

With that said there's nothing worse than some corps/ band even putting up a cheap grandma made crooked PVC screen. Like with anything IF you can't do it right, don't do it. If you can't do it safely ( drill included ) don't do it. If you think you are going to do something because the big boys are doing it and do it cheaply or poorly just for credit. FORGET IT!

IF you want to copy cat anyone then do it as well if not better.

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by GUARDLING

[karuna]

17 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

1. Youre mixing up the fact that these HS people are one in the same as Drum Corps people.

2. With that said there's nothing worse than some corps/ band even putting up a cheap grandma made crooked PVC screen. Like with anything IF you can't do it right, don't do it. If you can't do it safely ( drill included ) don't do it. If you think you are going to do something because the big boys are doing it and do it cheaply or poorly just for credit. FORGET IT!

IF you want to copy cat anyone then do it as well if not better.

 

1. That's only true for a very tiny fraction of HS programs.   

2. As for the rest of your comment LOL that's a nice story.  But every year hundreds of programs see something at a summer drum corps show and try to do the exact same thing in the Fall.  Like it or not,  those top corps are very much trendsetters for the HS activity.  Same goes for all the non-finalists corps trying to break into finals.  They're going to copy what they see getting rewarded by the corps who are IN finals.  We see it every year.

Edited March 25, 2019 by karuna

[GUARDLING]

7 minutes ago, karuna said:

1. That's only true for a very small fraction of HS programs.   

2. As for the rest of your comment LOL that's a nice story.  But every year hundreds of programs see something at a summer drum corps show and try to do the exact same thing in the Fall.  Like it or not,  those top programs are very much trendsetters for the HS activity.

 

Actually no..Most HS bands are overwhelmed by drum corps people. this has been going on for decades. It is the very reason bands have changed styles over the years. Ive done enough teaching as well as judging to know this as fact.

With that said. There are also corps who have taken MANY shows from top band programs. AGAIN there are I would agree some trashy props and maybe unsafe for some who young staff, as well as inexperienced programs, will throw out there.AGAIN I would advise, do not do it unless you can do it well. You won't get the credit for something done 1/2 way  or not done well.

Not disagreeing with you that some will copy BUT it does them no good to not do it well. Like with anything, including music and drill. I have seen some really small and not so good bands attempting the same with music and drill. One can scratch their heads and say WHY. A good staff will always try to make their members look the best for their ability. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by GUARDLING

[karuna]

12 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Actually no..Most HS bands are overwhelmed by drum corps people. this has been going on for decades. It is the very reason bands have changed styles over the years. Ive done enough teaching as well as judging to know this as fact.

With that said. There are also corps who have taken MANY shows from top band programs. AGAIN there are I would agree some trashy props and maybe unsafe for some who young staff, as well as inexperienced programs, will throw out there.AGAIN I would advise, do not do it unless you can do it well. You won't get the credit for something done 1/2 way  or not done well.

Guess it depends on what level of "drum corps people" you're talking about.  Sure they may have Johnny who marched Buccaneers or Susie who spun for the Colts for a year but that's hardly what we're discussing here.  The top designers only have a handful of band programs where they are actively "on staff".  Getting a mailed-in drill or score doesn't really count.  Neither does simply having people who marched a season or two.  I'd wager that a large majority of HS programs don't even send members to march in DCI corps.  

I know for a fact that marching a corps doesn't make you instantly qualified to teach a HS program.  In fact neither does tech'ing at a corps.  Lots of people who think they can make the transition just really suck at it.   There's a tremendous divide between doing and teaching.  And there's a tremendous difference between teaching high schooler's and any level of drum corps.  

Edited March 25, 2019 by karuna

[GUARDLING]

10 minutes ago, karuna said:

Guess it depends on what level of "drum corps people" you're talking about.  Sure they may have Johnny who marched Buccaneers or Susie who spun for the Colts for a year but that's hardly what we're discussing here.  The top designers only have a handful of band programs where they are actively "on staff".  Getting a mailed-in drill or score doesn't really count.  Neither does simply having people who marched a season or two.  

 

I totally agree with the 2 season drum corps person who thinks they are the be all, end all and walk around with their corps jackets on even in heat like they were glued to them( we all know them..lol ). Some bands usually find this out the hard way that just because someone marched somewhere doesn't mean they can teach.

This does not change the fact about do not do something if it can not be done right. This can be said of ALL aspects of the activity. If you attempt this and can not achieve, it just makes the group look worse.

Edited March 25, 2019 by GUARDLING

[waliman4444]

So far, I've seen responses essentially supporting the new prop oriented DCI because of the safety built into said props ..Also seen are people  who believe that we might be getting close to an over indulgence with things that aren't horns, drums or flags(rifles) etc..What bad thing would need to happen in order  for DCI to consider altering or eliminating the 'Higher and bigger" direction currently under way?

[karuna]

1 minute ago, GUARDLING said:

I totally agree with the 2 season drum corps person who thinks they are the be all, end all and walk around with their corps jackets on even in heat like they were glued to them. Some bands usually find this out the hard way that just because someone marched somewhere doesn't mean they can teach.

This does not change the fact about do not do something if it can not be done right. This can be said of ALL aspects of the activity. If you attempt this and can not achieve, it just makes the group look worse.

You're mixing up your advice with what what actually is happening.  Sure it's wonderful advice to avoid copying something you can't really pull off. But that certainly doesn't stop an ungodly number of programs from trying year after year.  

[GUARDLING]

Just now, karuna said:

You're mixing up your advice with what what actually is happening.  Sure it's wonderful advice to avoid copying something you can't really pull off. But that certainly doesn't stop an ungodly number of programs from trying year after year.  

I didnt say it did stop those programs Im saying it SHOULD they will not get credit for bad attempt