karuna Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, GUARDLING said: I didnt say it did stop those programs Im saying it SHOULD they will not get credit for bad attempt You're missing the point. The top corps are trendsetters. Corps and bands are going to copy them (good idea or not). Top corps are going prop-crazy. It's not hard to figure out what comes next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, karuna said: You're missing the point. The top corps are trendsetters. Corps and bands are going to copy them (good idea or not). Top corps are going prop-crazy. It's not hard to figure out what comes next... I have absolutely no objection ( as it seems you do ) to these props at all This seems to be your point. Again: if a corps or band thinks they will get credit for bad props, unsafe props, drill beyond the level of members they are sadly mistaken Lets remember though as I said drum corps people call many of the shots, good or bad staff. I think we are agreeing on most points..I think..lol Edited March 25, 2019 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: I have absolutely no objection ( as it seems you do ) to these props at all This seems to be your point. Again: if a corps or band thinks they will get credit for bad props, unsafe props, drill beyond the level of members they are sadly mistaken Lets remember though as I said drum corps people call many of the shots, good or bad staff. Lol and you're showing your drum corps roots by focusing exclusively on whether or not these props should get credit (ie score well). I don't think anyone in this thread has talked about props scoring Instead they were discussing about whether the props and their usage would be done in a safe manner. But since you bring it up 🙂 I have no issue with static props. Create your set -- whatever; it's just money right? I do think asking 19/20yr old musicians to spend 30% of a show pushing a prop around a field ( never mind the countless hours OFF the field they spend assembling, disassembling, and moving those props) instead of actually playing their instrument is a BAD THING. I also think talking about props creating a "3rd dimension" is a bunch of malarkey. It's still a two dimensional stage; performers aren't actively moving on the Z axis except to climb up and stand on the prop. There's no Z axis development to the design itself (and there won't be until DCI moves into space or someone invents antigravity belts). The best 3d i saw this year was BD. They took a flat image and truly made it three dimensional giving it depth. I also think designers are deluding themselves if they think they can create a "Blast!"-like experience on a football field. It takes a real stage, real sound design, real lighting, and real sets (with all the real behind-the-scenes technical staff that any broadway production requires) to pull it off. You can't do it on a football field and pretending that you can is just stupid. It's a hollow imitation. This fascination with tens of speakers all over the field and many performers needing IEMs just to play in time or mics just to be heard is also stupid. Putting performers in the right place at the right time to be heard is called GOOD STAGING and playing in time despite your location on the field is called overcoming ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES -- both skills very unique to this activity that used to be rewarded. Anyway ... Like you said -- if you can't do it BETTER than the original then don't try to copy it. Anyway giant props are "in" and they're here to stay until someone comes along and wins WITHOUT them. Then the cycle will reverse and props will be passé. Edited March 25, 2019 by karuna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, karuna said: Lol and you're showing your drum corps roots by focusing exclusively on whether or not these props should get credit (ie score well). I don't think anyone in this thread has talked about props scoring Instead they were discussing about whether the props and their usage would be done in a safe manner. But since you bring it up 🙂 I have no issue with static props. Create your set -- whatever; it's just money right? I do think asking 19/20yr old musicians to spend 30% of a show pushing a prop around a field ( never mind the countless hours OFF the field they spend assembling, disassembling, and moving those props) instead of actually playing their instrument is a BAD THING. I also think talking about props creating a "3rd dimension" is a bunch of malarkey. It's still a two dimensional stage; performers aren't actively moving on the Z axis except to climb up and stand on the prop. There's no Z axis development to the design itself (and there won't be until DCI moves into space or someone invents antigravity belts). The best 3d i saw this year was BD. They took a flat image and truly made it three dimensional giving it depth. I also think designers are deluding themselves if they think they can create a "Blast!"-like experience on a football field. It takes a real stage, real sound design, real lighting, and real sets (with all the real behind-the-scenes technical staff that any broadway production requires) to pull it off. You can't do it on a football field and pretending that you can is just stupid. It's a hollow imitation. This fascination with tens of speakers all over the field and many performers needing IEMs just to play in time or mics just to be heard is also stupid. Putting performers in the right place at the right time to be heard is called GOOD STAGING and playing in time despite your location on the field is called overcoming ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES -- both skills very unique to this activity that used to be rewarded. Anyway ... Like you said -- if you can't do it BETTER than the original then don't try to copy it. Anyway giant props are "in" and they're here to stay until someone comes along and wins WITHOUT them. Then the cycle will reverse and props will be passé. 8 My roots do go back quite a long time BUT you are showing that you do not care for this direction...and that's fine BUT I would agree they are here to stay. I do think it can and should be a choice I teach many of these members and they do not seem to have a problem with what they have to do within a show , no one likes the prep and taking down, it's just part of the process now. As a matter of fact, the cool factor plays into their approval of what is being done. I do know this 1st hand. You showed in this last post your opinion on many levels of today's drum corps and that's fine. I do think a corps could win without all the bells and whistles but this doesnt mean if a corps chooses to throw it all out there isn't just as high a quality. Edited March 25, 2019 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: My roots do go back quite a long time BUT you are showing that you do not care for this direction...and that's fine BUT I would agree they are here to stay. I dio think it can and should be a choice I teach many of these members and they do not seem to have a problem with what they have to do within a show. As a matter of fact the cool factor plays into their approval of what is being done. I do know this 1st hand. You showed in this last post your opinion on many levels of today's drum corps and that's fine. I do think a corps could win without all the bells and whistles but this doesnt mean if a corps chooses to throw it all out there isn't just as high a quality. Bells and whistles is exactly the right term. It's a fad. No one (including adjudicators) should be impressed that a soloist can play in time and be heard inside a box in the back of the endzone wearing an IEM and playing into a mic. However a soloist in the same place who has no IEM and is not using a mic who's able to do so should blow every one away. So long as those things continue to be true, who really cares about bells and whistles (which after all refers to those things that are superficial and superfluous). It's the meat and potatoes that matter and so long as that remains true the trimmings can safely be ignored. Move well, play well, spin well in a production that engages the audience. Edited March 25, 2019 by karuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, karuna said: Bells and whistles is exactly the right term. It's a fad. No one (including adjudicators) should be impressed that a soloist can play in time and be heard inside a box in the back of the endzone wearing an IEM and playing into a mic. However a soloist in the same place who has no IEM and is not using a mic who's able to do so should blow every one away. So long as those things continue to be true, who really cares about bells and whistles (which after all refers to those things that are superficial and superfluous). It's the meat and potatoes that matter and so long as that remains true the trimmings can safely be ignored. Move well, play well, spin well in a production that engages the audience. 3 3 ok so now we can see we are talking about something different..just for the record young and old alike do care and love what's being done today. Todays members do move well, play well spin like no others have in the activity as well as produce unbelievable productions. So now that we have got this down. We can just agree to disagree. AS far as fad. I remember hearing that in the 70s...time to move on🙂 Edited March 25, 2019 by GUARDLING 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, karuna said: Anyway giant props are "in" and they're here to stay until someone comes along and wins WITHOUT them. Then the cycle will reverse and props will be passé. Sorry to single out this one part of your otherwise excellent posting on this thread, but a correction is in order. No new equipment added to DCI ever becomes passe, as long as there is a DCI sponsor manufacturer still selling it. 1 hour ago, waliman4444 said: So far, I've seen responses essentially supporting the new prop oriented DCI because of the safety built into said props ..Also seen are people who believe that we might be getting close to an over indulgence with things that aren't horns, drums or flags(rifles) etc..What bad thing would need to happen in order for DCI to consider altering or eliminating the 'Higher and bigger" direction currently under way? I doubt there is any such thing. The worst I can see happening is additional safety measures, likely in the form of equipment enhancements (giving those sponsors yet another thing to sell to the marching music market). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: ..just for the record young and old alike do care and love what's being done today. SOME do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Sorry to single out this one part of your otherwise excellent posting on this thread, but a correction is in order. No new equipment added to DCI ever becomes passe, as long as there is a DCI sponsor manufacturer still selling it. I doubt there is any such thing. The worst I can see happening is additional safety measures, likely in the form of equipment enhancements (giving those sponsors yet another thing to sell to the marching music market). Props come and props go. I get what you're saying about things that are "newly legalized" but I don't think props fall into that category. We've seen prop-heavy shows in the past and then they went away and now they're back. Fully expect them to go away again and see a return to the "bare canvas". As for mics and IEMs, they're probably here to stay but I think we'll see their use become more restrained. Hearing an ensemble out your right ear when they're clearly standing down on the left 10 yard like is just bad design. Everyone will get it soon enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Eleran said: SOME do. like always and like with everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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