Stu Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: ...Are you suggesting anything to DCI or the corps? Are you coming up with something to present to school districts to help convince them to accept corps?.... Yes; and um, Yes. 4 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: I don’t care, because me knowing how many there were/are isn’t going to help the situation. If you cared you could present that truthful factual information to DCI and the schools; which, by the way, would also help the situation. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Stu said: Yes; and um, Yes. If you cared you could present that truthful factual information to DCI and the schools; which, by the way, would also help the situation. Just sayin'. Ok here is truthful and factual as of 4/2019. Some DCI corps have had problems with doing what they are supposed to with member safety (predator and otherwise). DCI has (finally) come up with a policy and has kicked one corps out for not following it. Too early to tell if the new policy and how it is implemented will resolve the issue. School response might be to get back to us when you can tell if the new policy resolves. Low percentage of corps people are predators. School response might be low percentage of general population are predators also and we don’t open the schools up for them either. Innocent corps being punished with the guilty: possible response that it is NOT the schools responsibility to care about drum corps. They are responsible for safety of students and local residents. After few decades of meetings with military I've learned you don’t just present your case, you also have to anticipate the response and how to respond to that. Didn’t give the response to the response as don’t have one right now I am reading a sense of entitlement that the schools are wrong for not allowing corps to use the schools. Frankly I’m surprised Corps (as totally local non tax paying entires) are using as many schools as they do. Edited April 7, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Stu said: Yes I have an agenda. It is that individuals and organizations are innocent until proven guilty. That until you show verifiable proof that BD is another shoe to drop then BD, and the pletheora of other corps for that matter, is/are 100% innocent. My agenda is also that the innocent should not be held responsible for the guilty. Your item #3 discusses other people's perception an public relations; well your item #2 indicates that your perception is that BD might very well be guilty; that they should not be presumed as innocent. If I am being stubborn and crass it is because I firmly believe innocence as a default until guilt is proven. Maybe we all do believe that, but it doesn't not one stinking whit to alter the general public's perception of a problem. Keep being stubborn, and nothing will change or get done. no matter how right you may be. And your continuous naming of just one possibly innocent group indicates a narrower agenda than you may realize. It's also a rather poor optic and look. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: ....I am reading a sense of entitlement that the schools are wrong for not allowing corps to use the schools. Frankly I’m surprised Corps (as totally local non tax paying entires) are using as many schools as they do. Um... Public schools are public buildings, and are just that, public. And non-profit entities such as churches, organizations, groups, clubs, etc.. are legally allowed to use the public building, outside of school time, provided they fill out the correct forms and pay any required fee. That is not entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Stu said: Um... Public schools are public buildings, and are just that, public. And non-profit entities such as churches, organizations, groups, clubs, etc.. are legally allowed to use the public building, outside of school time, provided they fill out the correct forms and pay any required fee. That is not entitlement. Allowed yes... HAVE to be allowed to use no.... missing piece is approval of group responsible for said public building. Went thru that for the church and not even sure it that was considered a public building as building was owned by the church (church as in legal entity). actually church closed its doors and building is up for sale.... listed as business opportunity Edited April 7, 2019 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Allowed yes... HAVE to be allowed to use no.... missing piece is approval of group responsible for said public building. Went thru that for the church and not even sure it that was considered a public building as building was owned by the church (church as in legal entity). actually church closed its doors and building is up for sale.... listed as business opportunity In the jurisdictions I have worked with, as long as proper application and fees are in order, the 'public' use of a 'public' school building outside of school cannot be denied; unless, of course, there is a legal issue preventing it (such as proof a known convicted child preditor is in the organization) or the building is booked during that time. A public school can, in many cases, have the building completely shut down overnight; but it has to be closed to all events and all organizations. If, say, they allow a church to have an overnight youth lock-in, they cannot then turn around and say a corps cannot also stay overnight. It is just that most organizations neither have time nor resources to fight a denial. They just move on to another place. Edited April 7, 2019 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Stu said: In most jurisdictions, as long as proper application and fees are in order, the 'public' use of a 'public' school building outside of school cannot be denied; unless, of course, there is a legal issue preventing it (such as proof a known convicted child preditor is in the organization) or the building is booked during that time. A public school can, in many cases, have the building completely shut down overnight; but it has to be closed to all events and all organizations. If, say, they allow a church to have an overnight youth lock-in, they cannot then turn around and say a corps cannot also stay overnight. It is just that most organizations neither have time nor resources to fight a denial. They just move on to another place. If true that would be an interesting avenue for you to follow in your fight. But for my former church I’d like to know why you think it was a public building. Building and land owned by the church entity itself. Like I said up for sale and when sold money will go to the church my old one merged with. (Same thing happened to church that merged with my old one.) And for Dubs info this is the Lutheran church about a 10 minute walk north from Harrisburg HS. Understand UM church between it and US 22 will be closed too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, JimF-LowBari said: If true that would be an interesting avenue for you to follow in your fight. But for my former church I’d like to know why you think it was a public building. Building and land owned by the church entity itself. Like I said up for sale and when sold money will go to the church my old one merged with. (Same thing happened to church that merged with my old one.) And for Dubs info this is the Lutheran church about a 10 minute walk north from Harrisburg HS. Understand UM church between it and US 22 will be closed too Where did I ever say a church is a public building? A church is a body of people that either use, lease, or own a building. The church (body of people) can and do lease out 'public' schools and other 'public' buildings all the time. In many cases they own their own building, or lease out a privatly owned building; however that building is not public. But if the church (again body of people) lease a 'public' building to hold their services, that 'public' building cannot be denied to other organizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Stu said: Where did I ever say a church is a public building? A church is a body of people that either use, lease, or own a building. The church (body of people) can and do lease out 'public' schools and other 'public' buildings all the time. In many cases they own their own building, or lease out a privatly owned building; however that building is not public. But if the church (again body of people) lease a 'public' building to hold their services, that 'public' building cannot be denied to other organizations. Well if you had originally said what I quoted I wouldn’t have made the mistake. Sheesh sorry I asked for clarification.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, JimF-LowBari said: Well if you had originally said what I quoted I wouldn’t have made the mistake. Sheesh sorry I asked for clarification.... Not trying to be snarky. Sorry if it came across that way. For clarification, you said it would be an interesting avenue to persue; and the quote of yours I was specifically responding to was: "...not even sure it that was considered a public building as building was owned by the church." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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